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RE: HUD permanent foundations

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Thanks, Lloyd,

You really hit on the points I was concerned about. 
You mention a "check list" - was that an internal
check list that your company used, or was it one of
the HUD checklists?  I've read through much of the
Permanent Foundation Guide and found a manufacturer's
checklist and an installer's (I think thats it)
checklist.  But I don't recall seeing just an
inspection checklist.  Do you recall which one is
perhaps appropriate to use in this case?

If nothing else, the lender and realtor could learn
from it and I could clearly point out the
deficiencies, rather than trying to explain the
concept of frost footings and why it is so certainly
unacceptable.

Thanks again,
Jim


--- "L. Pack" <Lloyd(--nospam--at)pecid.com> wrote:
> On 22 Mar 2005, at 11:57, Jim Wilson wrote:
> 
> > The problem is that this is pre-existing and there
> is
> > no simple way to determine if there is an
> insulated
> > slab underneath.  Though I really doubt that is
> the
> > case.
> > 
> > The comments from the real estate agent and the
> > contractor are (of course) that this is no big
> deal
> > and diagonal tie-downs are all that is required. 
> > Apparently I am the new engineer on the block and
> I'm
> > the first one to ever raise a concern about an
> > uninsulated slab on grade in a frost zone.
> > 
> > If only HUD had a grandfathered construction type
> > clause...
> > 
> > Jim Wilson
> > Stroudsburg, PA
> 
> 
> The intent, as I understand it, it not just to put a
> mobile
> home on strong piers, but to make the mobile home a
> permanent residence that is like a built-on-site
> structure.
> A similar situation is involved with the
> premanufactured
> homes that are placed on foundations.  To this end, 
> the
> structure should have footings and stemwalls
> surrounding
> the crawl space.  This is like you were building a
> standard
> house, only it's already been built.  You are just
> going to
> be setting it on the foundation that you would build
> if you
> were building the home from scratch.
> 
> I've worked for two firms that did quite a bit of
> these inspections.
> We'd go out and measure things, take pictures, then
> write
> a report to state whether or not the building was
> within
> the requirements of the document referenced by the
> lender.
> It was really a matter of going down a checklist.  I
> did not
> like all of the items on the list and felt that
> there were some
> circumstances where engineering calculations or
> judgement
> should have been allowed, but the lender was usually
> rather
> specific.  The building had to conform to all
> requirements
> of the referenced document.  And there were times
> when
> I would have stamped the situation from an analysis
> stand-
> point, but couldn't state that the situation
> conformed to
> the checklist.
> 
> Based on what you've told us, I would not sign off
> on this
> situation.  The pre-existing condition is
> concerning, if
> there has been opportunity for frost problems in the
> past
> that are now trying to be insulated for and covered,
> then
> you've got a potential frost heave problem that you
> may not
> even be able to investigate without digging under
> the building.
> I also don't like the lack of solid stemwalls with
> footings
> underneath and the footings below frost line.
> 
> Rather than "tank" the deal, you could recommend
> that
> they get another engineer.  That would remove the
> liability
> from you, and potentially the guilt for not being
> able to
> help them.  Not all situations can be helped.
> 
> Good luck on your decision.
> 
> Take care,
> Lloyd Pack, P.E.
> 
> 
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