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Re: stainless steel cable

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Kids can also fall out of open windows.  Do you believe that none of the windows in a building should open.  Kids can also fall off porch railings.  Do you want to abolish all porches?
 
Codes are legal documents and, as such, rely heavily on what is reasonable.  You cannot legislate complete safety. 
 
Parking garages are not tot lots and should not be expected to provide a safe environment for unwatched kids.
 
Gail Kelley
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Moore <nmoore(--nospam--at)innercite.com>
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org; seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Sent: Wed, 25 May 2005 08:03:48 -0700
Subject: Re: stainless steel cable

Gail:

I really don't care what the cables look like or what they cost, the loss any child is prohibitive.  Jim Getaz's experience sends me chills.  

One of my 3.5 year old grandkids probably can climb the cable.  You tell him don't; he'll go ahead and do it and smile at you the whole time!

Neil Moore, S.E.



At 06:44 AM 5/25/2005, gskwy(--nospam--at)aol.com wrote:
To take the opposite tack -  the possibility of children using horizontal cables as a ladder gets thrown around a lot.  Since it became an issue in a parking garage project I was working on,  I had my two nephews test it.
 
The 3-year old could not climb the cables in a garage near my house, despite being a very athletic, sports-oriented kid.  The 8-year old could.  So what exactly was being legislated here? 
 
A 3-year old should not be running around a parking garage unwatched.  The danger of them being hit by a car is several orders of magnitude higher than them climbing up a wire railing, even if they could.  An 8-year old can hurt themselves if they are dumb enough to climb the railing.  They are much more likely to get hurt riding their skateboard down the ramp.  Which they are also more likely to do, because it is more fun.
 
I have actually never read that a child got hurt climbing the wires in a parking garage.  However, the legacy of the short-lived, seems-like-a-good-idea, BOCA requirement remains.  There are several parking garages in DC that have vertical cables.  It makes the surrounding area look like a prison.  (The vertical cables also cost about 5 times as much as the horizontal wires.) 
 
So yes if this was something that building owners objected to, I would agree with them.
 
 
Gail Kelley
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Getaz <jgetaz(--nospam--at)shockeyprecast.com>
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Sent: Wed, 25 May 2005 08:09:13 -0400
Subject: Re: stainless steel cable

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
            Neil Moore wrote, “Well, Bill, I've got two 3.5 year old grandtwins who can also do that.  The other five grandkids know better.  But what scares the besomething out of me, is the fact that they can use the cables (and horizontal bars) to climb up and over!”
 
            BOCA had adopted a clause, maybe in the ‘93 edition, prohibiting rails that “act as ladders.” We were disappointed to see that it was one of the casualties of the politics combining the three codes into IBC. I am still hoping that it will return. I know that’s what I did as a boy, and my 9-year-old daughter last summer climbed up a handrail-height concrete barrier three stories up and had just stood on the top when I picked her up and set her back down on the floor. She has not let us forget that we would not let her up there.
 
Jim Getaz
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Winchester, Virginia