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Re: E-Files and Clients....

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Kevin,

I have two sides on this one:

We routinely provide framing plans for fabricators / sprinkler contractors / framers with a simple terms of use agreement. Our terms of use for cad files is part of the structural notes and therefore part of the contract documents. We also routinely provide PDF files to many of our clients, and Cad framing plans for clients with large facilities groups. Why should their facilities people not have the ability to coordinate the myriad functions with-in a large complex, or have the files on record for future expansions? It is an electronic age and providing CAD files is a part of customer service.


However, you did not pay an engineer alot of money for a set of drawings, you paid an engineer for a service that extends far beyond the drawings; you paid for knowledge and experience. Many many hours go into designing even the most simple structures in addition to simply producing drawings. Drawings are not a product, they are an instrument of service, and as such you as the client have the total right to access of the drawings for the use they were created for, and that is all. The engineer's total service is what saves you money, and is what you pay for. In our profession like so many others, the adage "you get what you pay for" is still true.

Paul Feather PE, SE
www.SE-Solutions.net
pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Polin" <KevinPolin(--nospam--at)Cyberonic.com>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:37 PM
Subject: RE: E-Files and Clients....



The CAD files are no good without a stamp and Signature.

I am not going to raise my costs and pay redraw fees just because an
engineer thinks he owns something "I paid him "ALOT OF MONEY" to draw
for ME".

David Fisher said: "that's how we MAKE money..."

So it's a MONEY THING? Just Like I thought, don't start talking like a
Neo-Con it's about more than just money it's about HAPPY CLIENTS and a
faster adaptation of new safer technology.

Kevin


-----Original Message-----
From: David Fisher [mailto:dfisher(--nospam--at)fpse.com]
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 1:40 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: E-Files and Clients....

Exactly...

When details get refined and can be re-used on future projects (saving
time
and labor), that's how we MAKE money...



right????




David L. Fisher  SE  PE
Senior Principal
Fisher + Partners Structural Engineers inc
372 West Ontario
Chicago 60610

312.573.1701
312.573.1726 fax
312.622.0409 mobile
www.fpse.com

David L. Fisher  SE  PE
Director
Head of Design and Construction
Cape Cod Grand Cayman Holdings Ltd
75 Fort Street
Georgetown Grand Cayman BWI
mobile 312.622.0409
www.ccgch.com












-----Original Message-----
From: Gerard Madden, SE [mailto:gmadden(--nospam--at)maddengine.com]
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 3:31 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: E-Files and Clients....

I couldn't disagree more.

I'm not about to see details that I spend a lot of time and effort on
showing up in some "designers" set of drawings because his contractor
buddy gave them my details. The details and plans are what give me
repeat business. I spent many a night generating, cataloging, and
refining the thousands of details I have in my library. I will not allow
someone to take them for nothing, possibly mis-use them, and contribute
to the ever declining state of structural drawings. I have seen many
sets of plans where someone has even sticky backed photocopied
details... fonts are different, styles are different. It's just lousy.

I will release a cad file of framing plans for people like fire
protection design-build engineers. I will gladly release PDF files to
whomever.

-gm



-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Polin [mailto:KevinPolin(--nospam--at)Cyberonic.com]
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 1:20 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: E-Files and Clients....

The first question I ask is "Do I get the CAD files for my project?".

If I do not receive my CAD files I choose another engineer no
discussion. Many companies release CAD files these days.

I usually can import PDF's into Freehand and then Convert them into Line
art where I can work with them. Then when I am done working with them I
export them as a "windows meta file" which can then be imported into
AutoCAD or microstation. But this can be cumbersome so I prefer to just
receive the CAD files.

We are in a digital world and this old world mentality of not sending
files is foolish.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: David Fisher [mailto:dfisher(--nospam--at)fpse.com]
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:10 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: E-Files and Clients....

Dave:

Depending on the project and the client, we SOMETIMES let outside
entities
Have our PLAN files for coordination purposes or shop drawings...

WE NEVER let our detail sheets out of the office in *.dwg form...ever.

I'll send people pdf's all day long; but NEVER cad *.dwg details.


When we release the plan files to subs, we make them sign a release and
Pay us a fee...




David L. Fisher  SE  PE
Senior Principal
Fisher + Partners Structural Engineers inc
372 West Ontario
Chicago 60610

312.573.1701
312.573.1726 fax
312.622.0409 mobile
www.fpse.com

David L. Fisher  SE  PE
Director
Head of Design and Construction
Cape Cod Grand Cayman Holdings Ltd
75 Fort Street
Georgetown Grand Cayman BWI
mobile 312.622.0409
www.ccgch.com












-----Original Message-----
From: David Maynard [mailto:davemaynard(--nospam--at)ceincorp.com]
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:02 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: E-Files and Clients....

List,

Our firm does a lot work with the coal mines out here.  Something that
is
jumping on our face and wiggling (as opposed to sneaking up on us) is
the
sharing of our electronic files, namely our AutoCAD .dwg files.  One
particular client, who is not the contractor mind you, is and has been a
very good client for the company, would likely NOT share these .dwg
files,
however, not all clients are the same.  Certainly, this type of
information
sharing with certain contractors is NOT a practice I want to get into,
especially with a Design-Bid-Build project, which is predominantly what
we
work with.

I am curious as to what others do with electronic file sharing.  Do you
NOT
allow .dwg files to leave your office???  Do you NOT share any e-files
with
your clients???  And is it different when you are talking
Design-Bid-Build
projects as opposed to Design-Build or other methods???

Thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Dave Maynard, PE
Gillette, Wyoming
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
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