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RE: Steel-Detail: this just in......

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The engineer on this project had previously been 'convicted' of incompetence
by the governing authority, fined $10K and ordered to take remedial classes
and rewrite exams but as they say "does a leopard change his spots". I had
never been involved with this clown before and I did not know about his
past.

>From the posts on this list, I surmise that the majority of members are
seasoned veterans and youngsters with a thirst for learning together with
people who genuinely want to share knowledge and ensure the survival of the
gene pool.

What many members may not realize is that there are literally thousands of
engineers out there whose egos and perceived talents would never allow them
to become members of this list. The number of these people is far greater
than the membership of this list.

It is, to say the least, truly unfortunate that the detailing community
winds up getting stuck with these deadbeats more often than not and yes, we
do refuse to quote jobs where the engineer is known to be incompetent and
yes, we do share names of engineering firms to avoid. Many of us quote low
when we know the engineering firm is excellent to work with and we post the
names of firms to court.

Regards,
Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Feather [mailto:pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net] 
Sent: May 27, 2005 9:38 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: Steel-Detail: this just in......

If 5 tons of structural steel was missing from the structural drawings, it 
is a clear extra and probably a sign of very incomplete never should have 
been released drawings.

Any of you ever just reject the bid because the drawings are so bad?  Maybe 
you should a few times and the clients may start getting the message.  I 
don't use the particular spec you referenced, but merely tried to show the 
other perspective.

Paul Feather PE, SE
www.SE-Solutions.net
pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dave lowen" <jatech(--nospam--at)kwic.com>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 4:15 PM
Subject: RE: Steel-Detail: this just in......


>I found this note amusing on one hand and definitely scary on the other.
>
> On a typical job we encounter, section 05 of the spec. is subdivided into
> structural, joists, deck and metal fabrications (or misc. metals). Each
> section contains exclusions and points to another section where they may 
> be
> found. This eliminates the need for a note of this type plus the need to 
> ask
> for a clarification.
>
> I recently completed a project where about 5 tons of structural steel was
> missing from the drawings. There was no note telling us this and the
> fabricator certainly would not have included it in his quote.
>
> For this reason I now refuse to quote jobs with notes of this kind.
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Feather [mailto:pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net]
> Sent: May 27, 2005 10:55 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Re: Steel-Detail: this just in......
>
> Gary,
>
> Dave's post indicated a note in the specs, not necessarily a note on the
> structural drawings.
>
>
> Paul Feather PE, SE
> www.SE-Solutions.net
> pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gary Hodgson & Associates" <ghodgson(--nospam--at)bellnet.ca>
> To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Steel-Detail: this just in......
>
>
>> Paul,
>> I think what Dave is referring to is the structural
>> steel.  You are right but the structural drawings
>> should include a note similar to your first paragraph
>> in which you direct the bidder's attention to all the
>> other stuff. The structural drawings in that case were
>> most likely referring to the designer's covering his butt.
>> Gary
>>
>> On 26 May 2005 at 16:59, Paul Feather wrote:
>>
>>> This would be in regard to miscellaneous steel elements as part of the
>>> Architectural, steel support elements that are part of the Mechanical,
>>> and so on.
>>>
>>> It is not realistic to assume that the structural drawings will detail
>>> every piece of steel in a building, most of the miscellaneous stuff is
>>> not in our contract.  We are responsible for the structural elements,
>>> you know, holding the building up and keeping it stable.  I am not
>>> responsible for the fancy angle iron light sconce fixture or the
>>> suspended open lattice ceiling treatment, or even the decorative
>>> guardrails and railings.  Typically we are not contracted to provide
>>> the piping and mechanical supports either, especially if they are in a
>>> yard or on grade as opposed to roof mounted.
>>>
>>> Just because it is steel doesn't make it structural.
>>>
>>> Typically the structural and miscellaneous are separate contracting
>>> contracts as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul Feather PE, SE
>>> www.SE-Solutions.net
>>> pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "dave lowen" <jatech(--nospam--at)kwic.com>
>>> To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:37 PM
>>> Subject: FW: Steel-Detail: this just in......
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: steel-detail(--nospam--at)yahoogroups.com
>>> > [mailto:steel-detail(--nospam--at)yahoogroups.com] On Sent: May 26, 2005 4:23 PM
>>> > To: 'Steel Detail' Subject: RE: Steel-Detail:
>>> >
>>> > .......but I've got a job here with a note in the specs
>>> > that says "The structural drawings are not intended to represent all
>>> > the steel required on this project."  I guess they're actually
>>> > intended to show just a little bit of the steel required?.........
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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