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Re: E-Files and Clients....

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Kevin,

For each building you re-do, the engineer is entitled to an appropriate re-use fee. You will sell the project, change your LLP, or what have you, and the engineer will carry the liability for your project long after you are gone.

From the sound of your message, you want DWG files so you can shop the
cheapest possible engineering and utilize someone's previous work to have someone new "adapt and stamp" for less. Attitudes like this are one of the main reasons I avoid residential spec development like the plague. The correct approach would be to develop a long term mutually beneficial relationship with an engineer who will provide services for your repetitive projects. You would get all the benefit of re-use, continuity of design, easy adaptation to new conditions, the only catch appears to be you seem resentful for having to compensate the individual for something you perceive as a commodity, his stamp.

Every site is different, the geology, the seismicity, the topography. ICF is heavy for residential, and requires careful considerate use and detailing to avoid a modern day equivalent of Iranian adobe building disaster's in an earthquake. Additionally many of the ICF systems do not lend themselves well to the necessary modules of other framing systems. Many of the manufacturer claims and standard details are basically BS.

It is not so much that the engineers do not wish to do something new or innovative, but that there are many of these systems that the building department wants an approved rating for, and the information is not available. So what happens, the engineer gets to develop a doctoral thesis on why a product should be allowed to be used, but he is an asshole if he wishes to be compensated for the effort.

It is not so much that the engineers are not returning your calls because they are afraid of a new technology, it is because they have experience enough to know they want nothing to do with an involved project that will pay nothing. If I told you I had a development project for your investment that guaranteed a negative return, would you be jumping at the chance?

You blasted David for it being "a money thing", and yet you are having to go to Sacramento to find cheap enough design services. Sounds like a money thing. Qualified ICF engineers are too far away, but Sacramento isn't? You don't use architects, also a money thing, hell what do you need with their expertise when you can easily equal their ability. Besides, those professional fees really cut into your margin.

It sounds as if you view the professional design community as necessary evil that would be un-necessary if it wasn't for the government. Unfortunately this attitude is not as uncommon as it should be in low end markets, and as long as you stay in the low-end market (spec residential) you may be able to wiggle along without needing to expand your views or vision.

Just remember, there is a fine line between being visionary and delusional.

Paul Feather PE, SE
www.SE-Solutions.net
pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Polin" <KevinPolin(--nospam--at)Cyberonic.com>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 7:55 AM
Subject: RE: E-Files and Clients....


Hi David,

Hmmm, that's a very funny question, but that depends on who you ask. If
you ask my girl friend and business partner, she says I don't do
anything. She says I'm a lazy bum and all I do is read news all day.

Now if you ask me that same question, I would have to say that I am a
visionary and thinker.

6 yrs ago I was a software developer in Irvine California but I have a
degree in Advertising Design (Long Story). Believe it or not while
playing an online video game late one night, a guy told me to buy real
estate. He said he was taking all of his money out of the market and
putting it in Real Estate, this was right before "9-11". So I bought a
bunch of real estate. Interest rates dropped property values
skyrocketed, Boom! I'm sitting on a few gold mines, multi-millionaire
overnight. But to me it's nothing because it can be gone tomorrow or I
could die and then it's worthless.

You can only buy so much property before the banks stop loaning you
money. So I am now taking the Equity out of my properties and putting
them into land development projects. So at this point I call myself a
developer. I have 3 projects waiting for engineering, and one I just
finished engineering I am in Los Angeles and I had to go all the way up
to Sacramento to get the project engineered affordably (I am sending him
detailed Video observations of the structural so he can sign off).

I am building fire resistive houses because I think it is the wave of
the future. In particular I am using "Insulated Concrete Forms". The
homeowners and the market is ready for this type of technology several
engineers that I know market themselves as "ICF Engineers", but I cannot
use them because they are to far away. (I cannot go into my whole
business plan here but this is the "Foundations" of my concept, which I
have ran by several people and they were surprised).

The problem that I am having is that engineers are very slow to adopt
new technology and many are scared away when you mention new technology
and never return calls, or raise the price so high that the adoption and
growth of new technologies is severely stunted. Besides they have plenty
of business with the old stuff, so why risk fooling with new stuff.

Please understand we do not need legislators telling us that the world
is changing "watch the news", the world is falling apart. We need to
build stronger more "environment proof housing" without the government
telling us we need to do something. We as engineers and citizens of the
United States should have already started. Architects hate me because I
always tell them that engineers are more important that Architects, but,
with engineers hoarding the good stuff like squirrels. New technology
will never take hold. This Neanderthal mentality must cease.

That's pretty much the main reason that I am PRO-DWG. I want to take a
standard plan and utilize it for multiple projects and have the engineer
re-adapt to the new project and stamp it quickly. SO WHAT IF SOMEBODY
LOOKS AT IT AND LEARNS SOMETHING, THEN THEY LEARN SOMETHING.

I don't use architects, so I have to use engineers but engineers need to
step up to the plate, and seed the new stuff out into the market so we
can go forward.

If I am wrong then slap me...

I am in a hurry so please excuse the grammar. I am a Visionary not an
English teacher.

P.S. I am 31yrs old.

Kevin
(A Visionary... one step ahead of his time)



-----Original Message-----
From: M. David Finley, P.E. [mailto:pec(--nospam--at)isgroup.net]
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:49 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: E-Files and Clients....

Kevin,

What exactly is your business?  Engineering?  Archtiecture?
Construction?

Just curious,

David Finley


----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Polin" <KevinPolin(--nospam--at)Cyberonic.com>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:37 PM
Subject: RE: E-Files and Clients....



The CAD files are no good without a stamp and Signature.

I am not going to raise my costs and pay redraw fees just because an
engineer thinks he owns something "I paid him "ALOT OF MONEY" to draw
for ME".

David Fisher said: "that's how we MAKE money..."

So it's a MONEY THING? Just Like I thought, don't start talking like a
Neo-Con it's about more than just money it's about HAPPY CLIENTS and a
faster adaptation of new safer technology.

Kevin



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