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RE: E-Files and Clients....

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Paul, Paul...

Please don't misunderstand me. I don't mind paying anybody especially an
engineer. 

I don't want to pay $8,000 then another $8,000 2 weeks later. Once the
details are worked out, he should be paid for his work and stamp, but
definitely not full price (if there were Major changes I understand). I
have great respect for engineers, its architects that I don't want to
pay, they cut into my margin, way to deep, they drive up the
affordability factor. If costs are controlled we all make money and put
out a product that is a model for California. Find a Vacant LOT, and
I'll help you get it financed just have decent credit. You can do
whatever you want to with it once it's built.

Site conditions are different on each site and have to be taken into
consideration... "Within Reason". My 1st project had a soil bearing
capacity of 1000psf, one of my other projects has a bearing value of
5000psf. The only real difference was the footing size. But the wall
details are all the same. 

ICF is perfect for residential. 

Go to the ICBO web site and type in "Insulated Concrete Forms" these are
the only companies that I deal with. If they do not have an ICBO report
then I do not want to work with that company. Imagine what there support
staff might be like. LOGIX has an ICBO and a LADBS report approval. So
that is half the fight of getting it through. If you have a general plan
that is similar to the last one then you are miles ahead of the
competition. If you stay within a small window design wise, I can keep
these projects coming like Hot cakes. It's really a no brainer.

Pay nothing? I was quoted 25K to 30K on my last project. I hate to quote
Donald Trump but "THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY". Many engineers I hear are
quoting high, so that they do fewer jobs but get paid more on a per job
basis (That's what 2 engineers told me) because they are busy. There is
nothing low end about 20K to 30K unless I am delusional, maybe you are
right I am delusional. I deal strictly in High end spec residential I
want these houses to be energy efficient and beautiful. The beach house
I was quoted $5k and $10K the engineer is Sacramento did the project for
$2,400 and he sent me the DWG's. He did not send me his calculations in
spread sheet format, which I understand. He worked from my drafters
plans (my drafter is in Indiana). 

We live in a global market place, get your ticket and strap on your seat
belt, because the Information Superhighway is ready for travel.

Life is a necessary Evil, Driving to work is a Necessary Evil, Being
married is a necessary evil, and collecting money from clients is a
necessary evil. Neo-Conservatives are a necessary evil, maybe not
necessary but any one with the idea of world domination is evil (I
apologize for that outburst).

Kevin







-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Feather [mailto:pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net] 
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 8:55 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: E-Files and Clients....

Kevin,

For each building you re-do, the engineer is entitled to an appropriate 
re-use fee.  You will sell the project, change your LLP, or what have
you, 
and the engineer will carry the liability for your project long after
you 
are gone.

>From the sound of your message, you want DWG files so you can shop the 
cheapest possible engineering and utilize someone's previous work to
have 
someone new "adapt and stamp" for less.  Attitudes like this are one of
the 
main reasons I avoid residential spec development like the plague.  The 
correct approach would be to develop a long term mutually beneficial 
relationship with an engineer who will provide services for your
repetitive 
projects.  You would get all the benefit of re-use, continuity of
design, 
easy adaptation to new conditions, the only catch appears to be you seem

resentful for having to compensate the individual for something you
perceive 
as a commodity, his stamp.

Every site is different, the geology, the seismicity, the topography.
ICF 
is heavy for residential, and requires careful considerate use and
detailing 
to avoid a modern day equivalent of Iranian adobe building disaster's in
an 
earthquake.  Additionally many of the ICF systems do not lend themselves

well to the necessary modules of other framing systems.  Many of the 
manufacturer claims and standard details are basically BS.

It is not so much that the engineers do not wish to do something new or 
innovative, but that there are many of these systems that the building 
department wants an approved rating for, and the information is not 
available.  So what happens, the engineer gets to develop a doctoral
thesis 
on why a product should be allowed to be used, but he is an asshole if
he 
wishes to be compensated for the effort.

It is not so much that the engineers are not returning your calls
because 
they are afraid of a new technology, it is because they have experience 
enough to know they want nothing to do with an involved project that
will 
pay nothing.  If I told you I had a development project for your
investment 
that guaranteed a negative return, would you be jumping at the chance?

You blasted David for it being "a money thing", and yet you are having
to go 
to Sacramento to find cheap enough design services.  Sounds like a money

thing.  Qualified ICF engineers are too far away, but Sacramento isn't?
You 
don't use architects, also a money thing, hell what do you need with
their 
expertise when you can easily equal their ability.  Besides, those 
professional fees really cut into your margin.

It sounds as if you view the professional design community as necessary
evil 
that would be un-necessary if it wasn't for the government.
Unfortunately 
this attitude is not as uncommon as it should be in low end markets, and
as 
long as you stay in the low-end market (spec residential) you may be
able to 
wiggle along without needing to expand your views or vision.

Just remember, there is a fine line between being visionary and
delusional.

Paul Feather PE, SE
www.SE-Solutions.net
pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Polin" <KevinPolin(--nospam--at)Cyberonic.com>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 7:55 AM
Subject: RE: E-Files and Clients....


> Hi David,
>
> Hmmm, that's a very funny question, but that depends on who you ask.
If
> you ask my girl friend and business partner, she says I don't do
> anything. She says I'm a lazy bum and all I do is read news all day.
>
> Now if you ask me that same question, I would have to say that I am a
> visionary and thinker.
>
> 6 yrs ago I was a software developer in Irvine California but I have a
> degree in Advertising Design (Long Story). Believe it or not while
> playing an online video game late one night, a guy told me to buy real
> estate. He said he was taking all of his money out of the market and
> putting it in Real Estate, this was right before "9-11". So I bought a
> bunch of real estate. Interest rates dropped property values
> skyrocketed, Boom! I'm sitting on a few gold mines, multi-millionaire
> overnight. But to me it's nothing because it can be gone tomorrow or I
> could die and then it's worthless.
>
> You can only buy so much property before the banks stop loaning you
> money. So I am now taking the Equity out of my properties and putting
> them into land development projects. So at this point I call myself a
> developer. I have 3 projects waiting for engineering, and one I just
> finished engineering I am in Los Angeles and I had to go all the way
up
> to Sacramento to get the project engineered affordably (I am sending
him
> detailed Video observations of the structural so he can sign off).
>
> I am building fire resistive houses because I think it is the wave of
> the future. In particular I am using "Insulated Concrete Forms". The
> homeowners and the market is ready for this type of technology several
> engineers that I know market themselves as "ICF Engineers", but I
cannot
> use them because they are to far away. (I cannot go into my whole
> business plan here but this is the "Foundations" of my concept, which
I
> have ran by several people and they were surprised).
>
> The problem that I am having is that engineers are very slow to adopt
> new technology and many are scared away when you mention new
technology
> and never return calls, or raise the price so high that the adoption
and
> growth of new technologies is severely stunted. Besides they have
plenty
> of business with the old stuff, so why risk fooling with new stuff.
>
> Please understand we do not need legislators telling us that the world
> is changing "watch the news", the world is falling apart. We need to
> build stronger more "environment proof housing" without the government
> telling us we need to do something. We as engineers and citizens of
the
> United States should have already started. Architects hate me because
I
> always tell them that engineers are more important that Architects,
but,
> with engineers hoarding the good stuff like squirrels. New technology
> will never take hold. This Neanderthal mentality must cease.
>
> That's pretty much the main reason that I am PRO-DWG. I want to take a
> standard plan and utilize it for multiple projects and have the
engineer
> re-adapt to the new project and stamp it quickly. SO WHAT IF SOMEBODY
> LOOKS AT IT AND LEARNS SOMETHING, THEN THEY LEARN SOMETHING.
>
> I don't use architects, so I have to use engineers but engineers need
to
> step up to the plate, and seed the new stuff out into the market so we
> can go forward.
>
> If I am wrong then slap me...
>
> I am in a hurry so please excuse the grammar. I am a Visionary not an
> English teacher.
>
> P.S. I am 31yrs old.
>
> Kevin
> (A Visionary... one step ahead of his time)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: M. David Finley, P.E. [mailto:pec(--nospam--at)isgroup.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:49 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Re: E-Files and Clients....
>
> Kevin,
>
> What exactly is your business?  Engineering?  Archtiecture?
> Construction?
>
> Just curious,
>
> David Finley
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kevin Polin" <KevinPolin(--nospam--at)Cyberonic.com>
> To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:37 PM
> Subject: RE: E-Files and Clients....
>
>
>
> The CAD files are no good without a stamp and Signature.
>
> I am not going to raise my costs and pay redraw fees just because an
> engineer thinks he owns something "I paid him "ALOT OF MONEY" to draw
> for ME".
>
> David Fisher said: "that's how we MAKE money..."
>
> So it's a MONEY THING? Just Like I thought, don't start talking like a
> Neo-Con it's about more than just money it's about HAPPY CLIENTS and a
> faster adaptation of new safer technology.
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
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