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Re: IBC Special inspection for Slab-on-Grade supporting HVAC unit.

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Dear Gail & Arvel-

Sorry if you thought my response to Elias was too harsh.

If you were following the entire thread, my answer came after he asked
basically the same questions again after getting a very good answer
from Stan.

IMO he was looking in the code in lieu of thinking about what he was doing.

I guess some people prefer to quote code instead of doing engineering.

So I guess that Stan's explanation that mentioned "slab on air" was a
bad one because

"no where in any code have I found a reference to "air-supported slabs."

He was using IMO a very good illustration, too bad the code committee
didn't see fit to use something similar, maybe all the confusion could
have been avoided

cheers
Bob

Arvel, at what point does a question that has been answered become
stupid when it is re-asked w/o considering  the previous answer given?



On 5/30/05, Will Haynes <gtg740p(--nospam--at)hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
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>  
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> Did anybody else get these messages with unrecognized paragraph formatting?
> Does anybody know how to work around it in Hotmail?
> 
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> 
> >From: "Arvel L. Williams, P.E." <awilliams(--nospam--at)gwsquared.com>
> >Reply-To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> >To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> >Subject: RE: IBC Special inspection for Slab-on-Grade supporting HVAC unit.
> >Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 10:24:12 -0500
> >
> >All,
> >
> >Actually, when I first read the question, I thought that Elias was asking
> about the building code so he could discuss it with a building code official
> or plan reviewer.  They always use common sense don't they.
> >
> >And yes, Ms. Kelly is quite correct.  It seem that wants ACI 318 to cover
> everything concrete.
> >
> >My only hope is that Rkazanjy doesn't do much mentoring with that attitude.
>  I've always told the staff I'm mentoring that the only "stupid" questions
> is the one unasked.  Besides, normally it's because the wrong question on
> the right topic is being asked.
> >
> >My thoughts.
> >
> >Arvel
> >   -----Original Message-----
> >   From: GSKWY(--nospam--at)aol.com [mailto:GSKWY(--nospam--at)aol.com]
> >   Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 7:08 AM
> >   To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> >   Subject: Re: IBC Special inspection for Slab-on-Grade supporting HVAC
> unit.
> >
> >
> >   In a message dated 5/27/2005 8:32:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> rkazanjy(--nospam--at)gmail.com writes:
> >     Elias-
> >
> >     Are there no senior engineers with common sense to share at your firm?
> >   Actually,  I thought the original question was good.  Much better than
> some of the answers,  particularly this one, which was  one of the stupidest
> I have read in a while:
> >
> >   "My main point was that Elias had totally lost sight (if he ever had
> sight) of common sense reality & was way too focused on finding (in the
> wrong spec) something to hang his hat on; the typical refuge of the code
> monkeys who seem to predominate in the CE/SE world."
> >
> >
> >   The question "why is a slab-on-ground not covered in ACI 318" comes up
> repeatedly because no one seems to understand it.  That would certainly be
> supported by the answers given on this list.
> >
> >   Slabs-on-ground are not covered in ACI 318 because they are not
> considered structural concrete.
> >
> >   The question of structural versus nonstructural has nothing to do with a
> "use category that is considered life essential."
> >
> >   The question of structural versus nonstructural  has nothing to do with
> whether the slab is stiffened.
> >
> >   The question of structural versus nonstructural has  nothing to do with
> whether the slab is designed to resist flexure and shear.  Slabs-on-ground
> designed using the PCA, WRI, and COE tables and nomographs are designed to
> resist loads in flexure.    Depending on the loading, it may also be
> necessary to check for shear.
> >
> >   And no where in any code have I found a reference to "air-supported
> slabs."
> >
> >   Slabs-on-ground are considered nonstructural unless they transmit loads
> or forces from other portions of the structure to the soil.  A
> slab-on-ground would only be considered structural if it supported some
> portion of the structure, such as a mezzanine or the roof.
> >
> >   Slabs-on-ground are specifically excluded from ACI 318 by section 1.1.6:
> >
> >   "1.1.6 â€" This code does not govern design and construction of
> soil-supported slabs, unless the slab transmits vertical loads or lateral
> forces from other portions of the structure to the soil."
> >
> >   Slabs-on-ground are specifically excluded from ACI 318 because the
> design methodology differs from that of a structural element.  (Not because
> members of ACI Committee 360 decided that was the way it should be.)
> >
> >   Slabs-on-ground were first specifically excluded in 318-95 with the only
> exception being slabs that transmit vertical loads to the soil.  This was
> amended in 318-99 to include slabs that transmit lateral forces.
> >
> >   While much of  ACI 318 can be applied to slabs-on-ground as good
> practice,  the requirements have to be specifically stated in the project
> specifications.
> >
> >   Gail Kelley
> >
> >
> 
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