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RE: Was Health Insurance for Engineers - Now incorporation

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Jordan, 
The difference is I explain all 10 pages to my clients and I explain all
14 pages of the Loan disclosures. Having a person email me 5 pages in
10pt type with no explanation as to what it means, is kind of creepy. It
would have been nice if they could have just explained it to me.

Bill,
I can't stand these agents (TRUE a bunch of middle aged women that hate
men), I also do not understand why they charge 5%-6%. I don't consider
myself an agent I consider myself... more of a visionary of sorts. 

Give me the loan and I will place your house in the MLS for a small
listing fee. I do not need 5%-6%, this is part of the reason that home
prices are off the charts, the agent usually tacks their fee on to the
sales price which keeps prices high.

The fights that I have had with these women, they try and show us men in
the business that they are the boss and they are in control of the
transactions. I have lost a lot of deals because the women are just too
controlling and demanding to us men. This is there 1 opportunity to
control a man and they take advantage of it every time. Believe it!!!

Arvel,
I am from Oklahoma and attorneys and big corporations control that state
forget about small engineering firms. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Jordan Truesdell, PE [mailto:seaint1(--nospam--at)truesdellengineering.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:20 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: Was Health Insurance for Engineers - Now incorporation

Personal: yes, professional: no. There are lots of business applications

which can generate liability which are not related to errors and 
omissions on our drawings. When you see a multipage engineering 
proposal, it may very well be the EJCDC short form, or some derivative. 
The language tends to be fair, and most of the text outside the scope of

work merely spells out the payment requirements, how to cancel the 
contract, the limitations of liability (which must be reasonable or they

are unenforceable), the dollars involved, and a rate schedule.  It takes

5 pages, in my case. The long form is a small booklet, most of which 
describes exactly who is responsible for what.

How long is your standard Real Estate Contract, if typed in 10 point TNR

with 1.25" margins on 8.5x11 paper?  The last one I saw in Virginia 
would probably come out to about 10 pages, not including the disclaimers

and state mandated disclosure sheets (asbestos, lead paint, etc.).  I'd 
say you're darned lucky that engineers aren't as organized as 
real-estate agents, or you'd find that we all used identical, draconian 
contracts and our fees would be, mysteriously, nearly identical (though 
we would swear under oath that 2% of total construction value was simply

a reflection of what the market would bear, and was in no way related to

collusion or price fixing).

(I know, don't feed the trolls...but I just can't help it.)


Kevin Polin wrote:

>I thought this was covering professional and personal liability?
>
>Is there any real way to protect your self from professional liability
>except for doing a good job and covering your basis? 
>
>I have a Real Estate License and a Manufactured Home Dealers license
>that are in my name and if I screw up, very simply the state of
>California will take them from me. So I try and stay sharper than the
>next guy.
>
>When I see a engineering proposal that is 5 pages of legal mumbo jumbo
>and 1 page or less of a project scope and price. I will pass every
time.
>The last two engineers that I chose were 1 page proposals and a price.
>The 10 that I passed up had so much legal B.S., which I could not in
>good faith use them. 
>
>The liability should be spread between all parties involved in a
>transaction, in good faith the liability should not all fall upon the
>client or all upon the engineer. In a real Estate transaction
especially
>when buying VACANT LAND, FORECLOSURES, FIXER UPPERS if I feel that my
>client is a little heavy on the liability side, I would rather cancel
>the deal than expose myself or them to too much liability. It's just
not
>worth it.
>  
>


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