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Hey Scott-
When do you take the bar exam?   ;<)
Bill Cain SE
Berkeley CA
In a message dated 7/17/2005 9:23:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, smaxwell(--nospam--at) writes:
Again, you could be right (nice pun there).  It may be that the PE law in
Minnesota (and other states) is written in such a way that the PE Board
can take action directly against non-licensed individuals.  But, I will
point out in the scenario that you outline, it still requires a civil
court to be involved in order for the Board to collect the fine as
presumably the Board does not have direct authoity over a non-licensed
individual.  It may be that hte PE act in Minnesota does give the Board
the option to pursue things in the civil court.  For a licensed engineer,
however, that fine would be a direct action as if they don't want their
license suspended or taken away, they would have to pay the fine.  Thus,
presumably the Board would not need to resort to court to "enforce" it
(now, the individual could presumably fight hte fine in court if they
wanted).  If the Minnesota Board has the authority to pursue civil court
cases, then I agree that an individual licensed in other states but not
Minn is 100% like a completely non-licensed individual (although the Board
would still have other "pressure points" to enforce a fine against some
one licensed in another state, especially if that person wants to get
licensed in Minn).

I believe that some states the PE laws are written in such a way that the
Board may not have the recourse of taking it to civil court but can only
forward it to a prosecutor for possible criminal court action.  In
otherwords, the legislature may not have given the PE Board authority to
take direct action against non-licensed individuals.  If so, then an
individual licensed in other states but the such as state without such
civil court authority is slightly different than a 100% non-licensed
individual as such a licensed engineer might some day want a license in
that state who issued a fine or that state's board could forward the
judgement/complaint to those states in which the individual is licensed,
who might take some action (i.e. some states could construe that as an
ethics violation, even if it did not happen in their state, and take
action...don't really know if that would happen or not.

The thing to remember is that not all PE acts/laws in all states are
equal.  Some are particularly strong, while others are particularly weak
(I believe that Michigan is an example of the latter).


Adrian, MI

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005, Christopher Wright wrote:

> On Jul 17, 2005, at 1:12 AM, Scott Maxwell wrote:
> > But, what I wonder is what are the Minnesota PE Board
> > avenues for collecting that fine?
> It isn't a criminal offense, so I suspect it's handled like a civil
> judgment. In Florida the proceedings are carried out before and
> administrative law judge. In theory I suspect hat refusal to pay might
> lead to garnishment of wages or civil contempt of court if an actual
> judgment were rendered. I don't know exactly what the process is in
> Minnesota, but it's pretty clear that fines are levied and collected
> for unlicensed practice.
> > So, I wonder if the Minnesota PE Board can take action against anyone
> > (i.e. someone who practices engineering but is not licensed in any
> > jurisdiction).
> Licensure in any other state is irrelevant--the Minnesota law considers
> the respondent unlicensed, if he practices in Minnesota without a
> Minnesota license. That's clear by the title of the enforcement action
> summary. There are a number of others where enforcement actions are
> taken against other professions as well as engineers who are clearly
> not licensed anywhere.
> > But, regardless, I am
> > different from that dude as I might want to get licensed in other
> > states,
> > not to mention that running afoul of states where I am not licensed
> > could
> > get me in trouble in the states in which I am licensed.
> I confess, I don't understand exactly what you're saying. It is a fact
> that your Minnesota registration can be revoked if you lie about
> whether your license in another state were revoked, but that's not a
> violation in Minnesota since the Minnesota board has no jurisdiction
> outside the state.
> It seems reasonable that Minnesota would require engineers to be
> licensed in Minnesota if they render services in Minnesota is to
> provide legal recourse in Minnesota courts in the event of negligent or
> incompetent practice. I would certainly expect that California would
> have similar provisions to insure that engineers from elsewhere, were
> suitably conversant with seismic requirements before they hung out a
> shingle. And I'd certainly expect that California would not make such
> requirements without enforcement power. The Florida board
> <> has a number of similar cases
> involving unlicensed practice.
> Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
> chrisw(--nospam--at)   | this distance" (last words of Gen.
> .......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
> 1864)