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Re: California Plan Stamping

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I suspected spelling check failed me. Sorry. But, in retrospect,the other word might have a negative religious meaning.

One doesn't have to be under oath to be guilty of pergury. A typical example - your income tax return, where you agree to be subject to the penalties of perjury shoud you be found to have lied on the return.

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Gary Hodgson & Associates" <ghodgson(--nospam--at)bellnet.ca>
Reply-To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Subject: Re: California Plan Stamping
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:34:10 -0400

Ray,
Perjury not purgery.  The former is to lie under oath
and the latter is not a word that I know, but could be
what you do to yourself if suffering blockage of the
lower extremities, i.e. constipation (not mental but
the other).
Gary

On 18 Jul 2005 at 10:03, Ray Pixley wrote:

> >ANY ONE could sue a non-licensed individual for
> >offering engineering services since in effect
>
> From what I understand about civil law, anyone can sue anyone.  The
> problem is, can you afford to? To sue you have to put your money where
> your mouth is, be willing to lose it and realize you can be
> countersued.
>
> >Regardless of that, if you practice engineering without a license (as
> >I understand things in most if not all jurisdictions), then you are
> >participating in a criminal activity that would be under criminal
> >court jurisdiction.
>
> I believe its only a civil offense.  You would have to commit serious
> purgery or some other crime before it can be considered a criminal
> activity, and then not having a license can be considered an
> aggravating circumstance.
>   A hugh aggravating circumstance.  By the way, its not that hard to
>   commit
> purgery, even if you have a license.  If you provide expert testimony
> before, say, a planning board and lie to them, they can have you
> prosecuted for purgery.  Whether it was an intentional lie or a
> happenstance lie is irrelevant.  If you seal drawings or other
> documents that you know are misleading that are needed for getting a
> permit, you've probably also committed purgery.  The reason why this
> is serious is that in a democracy, most boards are ideally made up of
> ordinary citizens, not experts. Consequently, when they have to make a
> decision that involves matters they don't quite fully understand, they
> have to rely on expert advice.  If the advise turns out to be bad and
> then things go wrong ....
>
> >If you drive without a license, who comes after you? ...   A
> >prosecutor or the AG's office...NOT the entity that issues the
> >license (i.e. in Michigan the Sec of State).
>
> In some states, the regulatory entity comes after you with their own
> lawyers.  Others have the option or are required by statute to have
> their state AG do that job, even though its a civil matter.  Its just
> a matter of state (usually legislative) policy.  As to which way is
> more cost effective to the taxpayer, its hard to say.
>
> >And FWIW, in Michigan at least, it is not an attorney on retainer at
> >PE Board meetings, I believe it is a lawyer from the AG's office.
>
> Again, that varies from state to state,  In New Jersey, the local town
> and county boards (Town Councils, Board of Education, Board of Health,
> Planning Board, etc.) hire their own lawyers for routine legal tasks,
> and look to them for advise on possible prosecution.  The state
> boards, like the PE Boards, probably do the same thing.  (By the way,
> in New Jersey, almost all government boards, including local ones, are
> considered creatures of the state, not the county or town.  Those I
> mention above are definitely state creatures.)  It sounds like
> Michigan chose to have their state AG office provide that service.
>
> >In other words, as I understand things it is the responsibility of
> >the AG's office to be "legal counsel" to all state entities.
>
> But if a PE Board disagrees with the AG on a matter, doesn't that
> policy effectively make them powerless?  AGs are not always right,
> they are humans also.  And they are probably not as familiar with the
> relevant statutes, case law and industry practice as those lawyers who
> work directly for such boards.  Consequently, I see a conflict of
> interest if state statutes allow only AG lawyers to provide such
> service.  But that's Michigan's problem, they have to deal with that
> policy's side effects.
>
> I'm not saying New Jersey's policy doesn't generate conflicts of
> interest problems, it creates a different kind of problem.  There are
> many times where a law firm is hired becomes of their political
> connections instead of their ability, and it makes for good soap opera
> fodder when it hits the local papers.
>
>
>
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