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RE: Unlicensed firms and engineers

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Hold the phone?. Save the Election, just for a minute at least?

This is what confuses me, what is your definition of ?supervision??

If an engineering firm creates some calcs and drawings you review them
and have them make a few corrections and add a few additions to the
drawings. Make a few phone calls. Is this considered direct supervision?
You supervised the final drawings. 

What if you leave the office, does this mean that while you were out of
the office, the people were no longer directly being supervised by you,
so the package is null and void? Or lets say you were out of the state
or country and you called someone and had him or her correct some items
or make some additions does this constitute direct supervision because
you are not directly in arms length distance away from that person?

I don?t see anywhere in the code that says they have to be in your
office sitting at a desk or in a cubicle that is 3 ½ feet from you.
Better yet what distance constitutes correct.

I have heard some of you say that if you get a bad set of drawings, you
will turn down a project, but yet architects give you guys drawings all
the time that you accept them and there is no conflict of interest even
though the main design of the house was not under your direct
supervision? But if a European engineer gives you a set of drawings and
calcs then they are null and void because you were not in the same room
as the guy in Europe when he was creating the drawings? 

I have talked to some engineers that don?t use computers they still do
things by hand, they are not wrong, but there feeling that ?things have
to be done by hand? is just a difference in philosophy and
interpretation (the interpretation being that Real engineering is done
with a slide rule). 

Waiting for that Definition.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: David Topete [mailto:davetopete(--nospam--at)yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:26 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Unlicensed firms and engineers

Yeah, I agree...  I kind of rambled on with my reply. 
I second the motion.  It's official:  J. Truesdell is
president-elect of this SEAINT list server.  Three
cheers.
DT, SE
SF, CA

--- "Arvel L. Williams, P.E."
<awilliams(--nospam--at)gwsquared.com> wrote:

> WOW.  I like this description.  Very to the point.
> 
> Arvel
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Jordan Truesdell, PE
> [mailto:seaint1(--nospam--at)truesdellengineering.com]
>   Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:16 AM
>   To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
>   Subject: Re: Unlicensed firms and engineers
> 
> 
>   Kevin Polin wrote:
>     Dear Board,
> 
> 
> 
>     ?I'm amazed to find out how many people
> generally don't know that
> stamping a set of plans is the result of a design,
> not a separate service we
> offer.?
> 
> 
> 
>     I am amazed that you do not see this as a
> legitimate business
> opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
>      ?There is a common misconception, aided by the
> plan-stamping architects
> and engineers out there, that plan-stamping is a
> legitimate service. Most
> people assume that it is the equivalent of a private
> consultant reviewing a
> set of documents for compliance, and required
> because the town or county
> planning office is to lazy or too risk-averse to do
> it themselves.?
>     <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
>     <!--[endif]-->
> 
>     I do not want to get flamed here but maybe you
> should reconsider your
> thinking. If a geotechnical engineer gives you a
> recommendation and you
> follow the recommendation then that?s an accepted
> form a business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Well, the Geotechnical engineer provides me a
> report with his seal.  I
> didn't do the work, so I don't claim the result - my
> drawings either note a
> bearing pressure in accordance with the IBC
> prescriptive loads, or reference
> the report by name, date, and person sealing the
> work.  Same for civil
> drawings.  I'm not sealing their work. In fact, I
> won't commission their
> work either - I require the owner procure the report
> directly.
> 
>   There is a "business opportunity" here, but it
> relies on the acceptance of
> the building department.  I have reviewed a set of
> plans prepared by other,
> out-of-state engineers.  If I find that the analysis
> is correct, I will
> write a letter stating my findings and seal the
> letter. For laymen like
> yourself, I suppose the seal isn't clear enough in
> its meaning. A seal does
> not indicate the approval of the signing engineer,
> but an affirmation that
> the engineer personally prepared or substantially
> supervised the preparation
> of the work (plans are just a readable form of the
> design and analysis
> behind the structure).  Perhaps, if every seal bore
> the inscription: "This
> document was created under my direct supervision" it
> would make more sense
> as to why it is illegal to "plan-stamp."
> 
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