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RE: Can Americans Compete ?

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Denni, Arvel et al,
Talk about politically correct-I saw in this morning's
paper where a British teachers' group wants to use the
term "delayed success" for failed students.  I can see
some homeless guy on the street with a tin cup and
a sign saying "Delayed Success Student".

On 26 Jul 2005 at 8:24, Arvel L. Williams, P.E. wrote:

> Dennis,
> Liberal in this sense does not mean political.  But it most certainly
> does mean a radical change in how we view and implement educational
> policy.  Our educational policies are just plain wrong.  You sound
> like an involved parent.  I try to be an involved parent.  However,
> with the gobbdly-gook that being taught, I cant' tell where my
> children's is heading.
> If you think that the "current theme" in education is just related to
> the single complete term of one president, you are naive and don't
> follow educational policy historically.  The current problems began
> with the "Department of Education" and have increased geometrically,
> like all unchecked bacterial infections.  The current policies are
> just a "political hack" on the part of Bush to make him self look good
> for re-election and are simply an extension of already existing
> government systems.
> I don't much care for some of W's domestic policies.
> If we really want to fix education get the Federal Government back to
> their real role and out of the state and local areas of power.
> Your argument about "lowering the bar" and then not enforcing
> standards is bi-polar.  They are all the same condition where
> "personal responsibility" has been thrown out of the window by lawyers
> resulting in our current society that why we can't have grades.  You
> are not responsible for your actions.  Put hot coffee between you legs
> and drives off.  That's ok, the burn is the fault of the big
> corporation not the idiot that put the hot coffee between their legs. 
> Stamp that set of drawing that someone else drew, After all "You are
> not responsible."  Symptoms of the same disease.
> Got to work now.
> Arvel
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis S. Wish, PE [mailto:dennis.wish(--nospam--at)]
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 8:18 PM
> To: SEAINT Listservice
> Subject: RE: Can Americans Compete ?
> From: "Arvel L. Williams, P.E." <awilliams(--nospam--at)>
> To: <seaint(--nospam--at)>
> Subject: RE: Can Americans Compete ?
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> I don't get it.  We know that the problem is the liberal approach to
> education with a move away form "Competition of grades" to no one
> fails (it is just deferred success).  All the studies, experts show
> that we have to have grades.  But we don't.  Why?
> Arvel
> How dare you Arvel, make this a political issue? This affects all of
> us Conservative and Liberal and if, as the state of congress agrees to
> date, the majority in Washington is conservative, then the blame would
> lie in the last six years of "All children left behind". This is a
> parental issue, not a political one and each parent who does nothing
> to promote education in their homes and takes the time to make sure
> that their children are suceeding are at fault. This is lazy and it is
> not an issue due to politics since the current theme in education is
> promoted by this administration. The truth is that American
> institutions are losing students to lower cost education outside the
> United States. Please don't use the conservative ploy "Prove it" as I
> will make it my goal to spend every moment of my vacation that I am
> not planning to spend with my grandchildren to prove you wrong. I know
> this is true as I am well read and am not stuck to one partisanship
> although I am conservative in some things and liberal in (admittedly a
> majority) of other issues. Marriage, education and ethics are three of
> my top conservative issues that I would support and from the position
> of education, our problem in political but one that has to do with
> parents and in part the money available in each state that is kept
> from education and lowering the teacher student ratio. So what is a
> grandfather doing with an understanding of this issue - raising my
> granddaughter and helphing my grandchilren with the problems they face
> in education. I was brought up to believe that education was important
> - I wasted my years in High School and most of my college experiences
> in the 60's and early 70's but at 30 years old I knew that without an
> education I was going nowhere. Now 25 years later I have a comfortable
> lifestyle, but am raising my grandchild and am appalled that cuts in
> the state budget are aimed at education and schools are not hiring
> teachers that care, but those who look forward to summer vacations
> when they can have some free time.
> So please don't give me this argument against competition for grades -
> it exists but as an instructor (or prior before the state budget cut)
> I learned that many students need incentives to succeed and sometimes
> it is lowering the bar in order to move them along with an incentive
> to retake the course and do better next time but not to fail the first
> time.
> Dennis
> --
>   --
>   Dennis S. Wish, PE
>   California Professional Engineer
>   Structural Engineering Consultant
> (Photo Blog)
> (Launch to
>   Professional
> Discussion Blogs)
>   dennis.wish(--nospam--at)
>   760.564.0884 (office - fax)
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