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RE: Rebuilding the Gulf Coast-Foam Core/Concrete Veneer Structural Framing

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Neil,
	With my design assignment last year, I had to do some intensive research
regarding other engineers who have designed structures with the Foam
Core/Concrete Veneer system.  My summary of why this framing system has not
been used extensively in the United States:
1.  No certified labatory testing of the walls for racking "In-Plain Shear"
... What is the allowable Pounds/Lineal foot that can be used for shear
walls?  (I have been able to obtain some test data from the University of
Mexico that illustrates the walls have an ultimate in-place capacity of 6.0
kips/ foot using 14 gauge wire trusses and 2500 psi concrete veneer. The
testing shows that the wall assembly is rather resilient -absorbing lateral
energy forces with out abrupt failures.)
2.  The application of the shotcrete - veneer in low volumes and quality to
meet client's expectations.... Similar to Stucco
3.  Installation of window and door openings that do not allow for water
infiltration.
4.  Trained field crews that can keep the labor cost competitive.

	Since my engineering practice is focused on DESIGN-BUILD mult-floor
projects I am working on all of the above topics with expectations that the
Foam Core/Concrete Veneer will become cost effective technology for the
bearing walls of traditional structures.
	So now may ask for your experience in using a Finite Element Analysis
software like RISA 3-D to predict the structural performance of the wall
panels under various load conditions.  Will the typical plan checker accept
the RISA 3-D analysis with all the code checks that comply with ACI, UBC
codes etc. ?
Jim L. Chatterley PE
Composite Framing Systems, Inc.
2723 Currier Ave., Simi Valley, California, 93065
805-520-3666   Fax 805-583-1434
www.Compositeframingsystems.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Moore [mailto:nmoore(--nospam--at)innercite.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 10:03 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org; seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Rebuilding the Gulf Coast


Jim and Dennis:

I have to chime in a little bit on this too.   I think that I submitted a
recent post on the steel mesh-foam core-plaster-cement sandwich
panels.    I have never understood why this system didn't take off like it
should have.   These panels are easy to assemble.  It is possible to make
the panels also work as roofs or 2nd floors and there are and were ICBO
reports available at least 20 years ago.

They were used quite a bit in Saudi Arabia and Nigeria and there is
(repeating from the earlier post) a tract of houses in Chino,
California.   They are also fairly straight forward in structural
design.   There's a structural engineer on the northern California coast
that was an expert in this; a former either UCLA or SC professor that was
the original structural engineer on the old W-Panel system.

Neil Moore, S.E.
neil moore and associates
shingle springs, ca


At 09:37 AM 9/6/2005 -0700, Jim Chatterley PE wrote:
>Dennis,
>         Major natural events are often the catalyst that force engineers,
> code
>officials, insurance companies, FIMA and the building industry to new
>technology that will ultimately improve the safety and quality of the
>structures that are re-built.  Just consider the results of the North-ridge
>earthquake.  We can anticipate the same results from the Katrina Event.
>         For the past 2 years I have been working with a client who wants
to
>re-construct a home adjacent to Malibu Lake here in So. California.  The
>design criteria to obtain a building permit from Los Angles County under
the
>FIMA guidelines will be to construct all living floor space one foot over
>the 100 year flood elevation that is set by the Los Angles County Public
>Works officials in the immediate area.  (In the is case it is a higher
>elevation than the FIMA mapped elevations.)  I am sure that the
>re-construction of structures in the south coast will have a similar
>criteria.
>         Now for new technology that may have an application for this
>reconstruction.  For more than 40 years there has been a structural panel
>built from wire trusses and face wire with a Expanded Poly Styrene foam
>core.  The exterior surface of this wall panel is typically 1.5 inch thick
>shot Crete applied concrete veneer (2000 psi).  This structural system is
>now used extensively world wide... There are currently 3 or 4 manufactures
>trying to market the panel construction here in the United States.  In my
>research I find that the manufactures are struggling with the problems of
>ICC Testing Criteria and Evaluation reports that can be published for
>engineers designs and plan check approvals.
>         Last year I designed two structures from the Foam Core / Concrete
> Veneer
>system. The plan check process was painful even with current ICC Evaluation
>reports.  So new structural framing technology will require more
>education.....
>Jim L. Chatterley PE
>Composite Framing Systems, Inc.
>2723 Currier Ave., Simi Valley, California, 93065
>805-520-3666   Fax 805-583-1434
>www.Compositeframingsystems.com
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dennis S. Wish, PE [mailto:dennis.wish(--nospam--at)verizon.net]
>Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 6:58 PM
>To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
>Subject: Rebuilding the Gulf Coast
>
>
>I have been traveling for the last month - visiting family in Chicago. I
>drove through Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri,
>Oklahoma, Texas, Iowa and Illinois on my path to and from La Quinta
>California to Waukegan Illinois.
>Each day the news coming from the Gulf became more and more devastating.
>There is an effort of neighbor helping heighbor when the families are able
>to leave the area and find temporary housing with families and with
>coordinated efforts of the religious community across the nation.
>Our professional efforts will be needed to resist nature using many of the
>latest and ecconomic materials that can provide solutions for housing on a
>broad basis. My concern is that this will become a "market" that the public
>believes is created to line our pockets and as with those who take
advantage
>of the situation, will harm our profession when our efforts are to help.
>Do we consider the necessity of recreating "tracts" or do we provide
>individual design for the homeowner's who want to rebuild once the
elevation
>issues and flood control concerns are engineered.
>
>I believe that we, as a professional community, can organize our efforts
all
>across the United States to help rebuild these three states. The labor
force
>is out there and we should be able to organize a means of creating housing
>that will be designed to resist greater forces using new technology and
>materials and do so at a more ecconomical cost. Rather than greater cost
due
>to demand, we should be expecting that material costs can be reduced by
>increasing the demand and eliminating the storage or warehousing costs.
>
>I'm not sure if I am being clear on this, but I would think that quantity
>equates to greater purchasing power. When I was in business some twenty
>seven years ago, we had lower prices on containers for customers who
>purchased greater quantities. This does not mean that developers in a time
>of crisis should be able to maximize profits at the expense of the public,
>but that the public should be the recipients of our good well by creating a
>design and construction principle that will help reduce the cost of design
>and lower the cost of materials. Labor is competitive; some suggested that
>to help lower the cost, the Federal Government can temporarily eliminate
the
>Davis Bacon Act - however, I understand the Union arguments that to do so
>may effect the quality of construction.
>
>Is this a problem that we should be discussing in order to help building
>officials and municipalities pass along the help to the homeowners who need
>to rebuild.
>
>A few months ago the Federal Government and the President signed a law into
>place that essentially eliminates the ability of private citzens to file
>bankruptsy. Will the government repeal this law when the thousands of
>homeowners can not afford to rebuild. Remember that flood insurance is only
>available to those who have a mortgage. If you own your own home, you can
>not obtain flood insurance in this region. I'm not sure if this is typical
>across the nation, but I've heard authorities discuss this in the media.
>
>I feel that we need to do something more than send money, blood, food or
>temporary housing - the structural engineering community needs to look past
>the short term and address the challenge to rebuild the one structure that
>represents more than 90% of all structures - residential homes.
>
>I've been off the list for nearly a month because of my travels back east.
I
>don't know if this has been discussed but if anyone is interested in
>discussing this with me privately and in cooperation with material
>manufactures of proprietary products that can be used to ecconomically
>rebuild a stronger and better performing home, we may be able to set a new
>standard for the future.
>
>My heart goes out to those who have lost everything; and living in
>California I feel that we are vulnerable from a high risk of natural
>disaster. What can we do, using our professional talents to help without
>seemingly taking advantage of the situation? I don't doubt that there are
>enough large firms to rebuild commercial and essential facilities. Homes
are
>sacred to all of us - when we lose a home or can no longer feel safe within
>our homes then we feel violated and probably at the lowest level of our
>lives. Our homes are much more than a roof over our heads, they are are
safe
>haven and these people deserve to feel safe again.
>
>Sincerely,
>Dennis S. Wish, PE
>California Professional Engineer
>Structural Engineering Consultant
>dennis.wish(--nospam--at)verizon.net
>
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