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Re: Field welding

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Gary,
I don't doubt you. I also understand that is common practice in parts of the US also to have the fabricators design the connections. I have never lived in those areas though. I will also say that when I'm fairly certain that I will get good shop welding or for that matter good field welding, I use full allowable stresses in the weld design. I'll try to explain my point a little better.

I have lived in this area of the desert SW for almost two years now. Before moving to this area I worked in areas of the country that kept up with construction practices, design practices, yes and even attitudes etc., and some areas that I thought were behind the times, but this particular area really is really back there. It's a whole different scene and a whole different attitude. I make good money and my wife makes better money and we love the climate and many other things about the area and wish to stay. Our company has discussed getting out of structural design entirely due to the practices and attitudes towards the structural engineer and the fees clients are willing to pay for structural engineering. I would say the building department is trying to change in regards to structural requirements, but that change is coming slow. I may have to gradually move into some site civil and on-site waste water management, to remain employed in the area. Those on the list that advocate things such as demanding mistakes by the contractor be immediately removed and replaced, demanding continuous on-site inspections, etc. must be working in an area where there is a bottomless bucket full of clients, 'cause it ain't that way here. P*** off a couple of the architects and contractors in the area, and you are out of business. So we try to work with them, try to gradually train them and gradually change some attitudes. That includes contractors, "designers", architects, and building departments, realtors and owners. It is very slow going and we may or may not get there.

Back to the original welding discussion. I know requiring certification is common practice, and was so in all other places that I have worked, but practice and reality is not always the same in some locations. I recognize that and take that in to account in some designs. If that means using 50%, 60%, 70% or full stresses in weld design or any other materials. You LRFD designers can understand it as a lowering of the phi factor that takes in to account materials and workmanship.

I understand "take it out and replace it", I understand firing clients, demanding inspections etc., etc. I have been there for all those things, but that ain't the way it is everywhere all the time. Sometimes adjustments have to be made.

Joe


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Hodgson & Associates" <ghodgson(--nospam--at)bellnet.ca>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 5:41 AM
Subject: RE: Field welding


Joe,
It is quite common in Canada to ask the fabricator to choose the
connections and have his engineer stamp the drawings for adequacy of
connections. The set-up in Can with regard to welding is different
than the US as every company engaged in welding of structural steel
for structures must be certifed by the Can Welding Bureau and must
hire or retain a professional engineer who will take responsibility
for welding engineering.
Gary


On 9 Sep 2005 at 10:33, Joe Grill wrote:

I hadn't jumped in on this thread yet.  I'm curious as to why the
engineer would even mention what he used as allowable stresses on the
welds unless he was leaving the connection designs up to the
fabricator.  That being said I think Jordan has covered the issue as
far as I'm concerned.  I practice in an area where you never know who
might be doing the welding in the field.  I can spec. anything as far
as certifications etc etc. and will never know, because beyond the
design I may have nothing more to do with the project. This area is
like doing design in a third world country.  I've seen too many
instances where grade 60 reinforcing is called for and grade 40 is
placed. I don't think anyone in the area knows how to tell the
difference in the field.  I could go on and on.  Anyway, since I have
moved here I will now use a reduced stress on field welds; I will
design with 2500 psi concrete and grade 40 reinforcing because what I
have seen in the field.  Building inspectors have not been any help,
and the "designers" and architects don't seem to care.  Like the other
recent thread, the problems generally come back to the engineer to
correct.  There wouldn't be too many "take it out and replace it"
instances before I would be totally out of work.



Joe



Joseph R. Grill, P.E. (Structural)

Shephard - Wesnitzer, Inc.

Civil Engineering and Surveying

1146 W. Hwy 89A Suite B

Sedona, AZ  86340

PHONE (928) 282-1061

FAX (928) 282-2058

jgrill(--nospam--at)swiaz.com



 <http://inet/index.htm>

-----Original Message-----
From: Jordan Truesdell, PE [mailto:seaint1(--nospam--at)truesdellengineering.com]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:10 AM To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: Field welding



I don't think it has anything to do with the pledge.  In the case of
field welding in education projects, it could be a "prayer in school"
issue, depending on who's doing the welding. ;-)

gskwy(--nospam--at)aol.com wrote:

I have obviously not been following this thread closely enough since I
can't quite figure out the connection between field welding and United
State Court of Appeals for the Ninth Cuircuit,  but if anyone needs
the court web site, here it is:  http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/



If I had to guess, I would say the connection may somehow have
something to do with the Pledge of Allegiance, which in and of itself
does not seem to be strongly connected to field welding.



Gail Kelley




-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Polhemus  <mailto:bill(--nospam--at)polhemus.cc> <bill(--nospam--at)polhemus.cc> To:
seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org Sent: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 07:43:32 -0500 Subject: Re:
Field welding


I realize that there are code provisions that may be questionable as
to their wisdom in the fulness of time, but that's true of virtually
any human endeavor.

Certainly they are less arbitrary than many--if not most--of the
decisions handed down by the U.S. Ninth Circuit.


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