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RE: Field welding

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A couple of years ago, I inspected field welding for steel framing that
was performed by a Contractor for a municipal client (in Texas).  When I
looked at the field welds, they looked like "backyard welding", so I
asked if they had been done by a certified welder, as specified.  The
Contractor said that one of the laborers on his crew said that he knew
how to weld, so they let him do the welding (non-certified)!  

I told them that the welds would need to be redone by a certified
welder.   


William C. Sherman, PE
(Bill Sherman)
CDM, Denver, CO
Phone: 303-298-1311
Fax: 303-293-8236
email: shermanwc(--nospam--at)cdm.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu] 
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:10 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Field welding

Gary,

It is quite common in my neck of the woods (and East of the Rockies as I
understand things) to ask the steel frabricator to design the
connections and have an/his engineer seal the shop drawings and/or
connection calculations.  It is still usually considered the EORs
responsibility to check those connections for adequacy (at least at
every company that I worked for)...even if sealed by the fabricator's
engineer or consultant engineer.

As to welder certification, that one is a little more "hit or miss".  I
believe (largely speculation with observation) that most, if not all,
welders in significant size fab shops will be certified welders.  The
issue will be whether or not the welders certified for certain welds
always do THOSE welds in the shop.  I would believe that in general they
will, but there is not wide spread required "system" in place to verify
that unless it is specifically written into the individual project specs
(and followed through with...I requirement enforced).  Field weld in
general on commercial jobs (at least in my area) will largely be the
same way.  Field welding (and to some degree on shop welding) for
residential work is a totally different matter.  There is a good chance
for residential work (at least in my area) that a field welder is some
guy that learned to weld that may or may not know what s/he is doing but
is typically NOT certified a lot of times.  Thus, I am little more
careful with field welding for residential work (i.e. try to avoid it
completely if possible).

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI


On Sat, 10 Sep 2005, Gary Hodgson & Associates wrote:

> Joe,
> It is quite common in Canada to ask the fabricator to choose the 
> connections and have his engineer stamp the drawings for adequacy of 
> connections. The set-up in Can with regard to welding is different 
> than the US as every company engaged in welding of structural steel 
> for structures must be certifed by the Can Welding Bureau and must 
> hire or retain a professional engineer who will take responsibility 
> for welding engineering.
> Gary
>
>
> On 9 Sep 2005 at 10:33, Joe Grill wrote:
>
> > I hadn't jumped in on this thread yet.  I'm curious as to why the 
> > engineer would even mention what he used as allowable stresses on 
> > the welds unless he was leaving the connection designs up to the 
> > fabricator.  That being said I think Jordan has covered the issue as

> > far as I'm concerned.  I practice in an area where you never know 
> > who might be doing the welding in the field.  I can spec. anything 
> > as far as certifications etc etc. and will never know, because 
> > beyond the design I may have nothing more to do with the project. 
> > This area is like doing design in a third world country.  I've seen 
> > too many instances where grade 60 reinforcing is called for and 
> > grade 40 is placed. I don't think anyone in the area knows how to 
> > tell the difference in the field.  I could go on and on.  Anyway, 
> > since I have moved here I will now use a reduced stress on field 
> > welds; I will design with 2500 psi concrete and grade 40 reinforcing

> > because what I have seen in the field.  Building inspectors have not

> > been any help, and the "designers" and architects don't seem to 
> > care.  Like the other recent thread, the problems generally come 
> > back to the engineer to correct.  There wouldn't be too many "take
it out and replace it"
> > instances before I would be totally out of work.
> >
> >
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> > Joseph R. Grill, P.E. (Structural)
> >
> > Shephard - Wesnitzer, Inc.
> >
> > Civil Engineering and Surveying
> >
> > 1146 W. Hwy 89A Suite B
> >
> > Sedona, AZ  86340
> >
> > PHONE (928) 282-1061
> >
> > FAX (928) 282-2058
> >
> > jgrill(--nospam--at)swiaz.com
> >
> >
> >
> >  <http://inet/index.htm>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jordan Truesdell, PE [mailto:seaint1(--nospam--at)truesdellengineering.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:10 AM To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> > Subject: Re: Field welding
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't think it has anything to do with the pledge.  In the case of

> > field welding in education projects, it could be a "prayer in
school"
> > issue, depending on who's doing the welding. ;-)
> >
> > gskwy(--nospam--at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I have obviously not been following this thread closely enough since

> > I can't quite figure out the connection between field welding and 
> > United State Court of Appeals for the Ninth Cuircuit,  but if anyone

> > needs the court web site, here it is:  http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/
> >
> >
> >
> > If I had to guess, I would say the connection may somehow have 
> > something to do with the Pledge of Allegiance, which in and of 
> > itself does not seem to be strongly connected to field welding.
> >
> >
> >
> > Gail Kelley
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Polhemus  <mailto:bill(--nospam--at)polhemus.cc> <bill(--nospam--at)polhemus.cc>
To:
> > seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org Sent: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 07:43:32 -0500 Subject: Re:
> > Field welding
> >
> >
> > I realize that there are code provisions that may be questionable as

> > to their wisdom in the fulness of time, but that's true of virtually

> > any human endeavor.
> >
> > Certainly they are less arbitrary than many--if not most--of the 
> > decisions handed down by the U.S. Ninth Circuit.
> >
> >
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