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Re: Wrap around insurance from project developer

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Dennis-
I would recommend great caution here. 10 years from now the developer will have most likely folded the corporate shell created for the project & ceased making insurance payments--how much protection will that give you. You will be sued--irrespective of insurance, how much of your time will that require?
Chuck Utzman, P.E.

Ed Tornberg wrote:

Dennis,

1.  Like any policy, you can only know your protection by carefully
reading the print (it's all fine print).  I was told a "wrap" policy was
forthcoming on a condo project, but I never saw it.  A wrap policy costs
a small fortune, so it's easy for the developer to SAY they'll buy it
and then decide to carry the risk and double their profit.  Demand a
copy of the policy with your name, explicit or positively inferred, on
it.

2.  You know, I'm tired of playing the $/sf game with bids (but alas,
life goes on).  There's just so much variance.  Lateral design for a
given location can be fairly consistent within a geographic area.  I
know my lateral fees for the Pacific NW are around 25 cents/sf, as long
as wood shear walls work and no steel frames are needed.  Double it if
it's exposure D on the coast.  But gravity load work effort is all over
the place.  A 4000 sf home can have 8 designed beams or 20, depending on
the "creativity" of the designer.  If a condo has a high degree of
regularity or repetetive floor plans, then $/sf comes down, easily below
$1.00/sf, I should think.  I'm just talking calcs and markups, mind you.
What's the documentation??  Full scale drawings are a whole other ball
game.
Ed Tornberg
Tornberg Consulting, LLC
503-551-4165

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis S. Wish, PE [mailto:dennis.wish(--nospam--at)verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:54 PM
To: SEAINT Listservice
Subject: Wrap around insurance from project developer

I've not heard about this before so I thought I would ask the list. I tend to stay clear of condo and tract development projects due to the high rist of law suits that we get dragged into. I have an offer to do a

two story light framed condo building upon a slab on grade here in my home town. I was called by the developer of the project who is in the Orange County California area. I told him that I don't carry E&O but I could team up with another firm if the other firm takes the lead on the project. He would still have me as the lead as I live close to the project where my associates are in the Orange County and Los Angeles
areas.
The client said that he had a "Wrap Around" insurance policy that protects all consultants on the job (Architect, Engineer and other subs). I've never heard about this before and am hesitant to bid the job

alone.
I have two questions:
1. What is a Wrap Around insurance policy and am I protected the same as

if I had E&O coverage?
2. What type of fee is fair for a condo project. I need a rough estimate

and I would assume that the fee is somewhat less than I would charge for

a difficult custom home which is in the neighborhood of $1.50 to $2.00 a

square foot without E&O. Can you give me a ball park for a two story structure on non-expansive sand and silt soils. Structure is slab on grade and probably has a pitched tile roof.

Can you e-mail me privately as the list is filling up with issues I'd rather avoid and need a reply quickly. I do not have a set of drawings to review as yet but will have in the next few days.

Thanks in advance,
Dennis S. Wish PE
California Professional Engineer
Structural Engineering Consultant
dennis.wish(--nospam--at)verizon.net
administrator of http://www.structuralist.net/professional

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