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Re: Questions re: Doors & Windows

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Scott,

I'm on your side. Bring back nuclear fallout shelters, tornado shelters and
underground housing! Sure would cut down on our heating/cooling energy
needs...uh-oh, is that a new OT?

James Cohen, PE
James Cohen Consulting, PC
http://expertpages.com/jccpc

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Maxwell" <smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 08:48 AM
Subject: Re: Questions re: Doors & Windows


Gary,

Windows and door are WAY to overrated.  Who needs to see the outside world
anyway or heaven forbid actually go out into?!?  Isn't that what TVs are
for?  After all, the outside world is a mean, nasty, unsafe place.
Better to stay at home and be an anit-social hermit that only chats
on email lists! Wait, is that me that I am talking about? <grin> ;-)

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI


On Fri, 16 Sep 2005, Gary Hodgson & Associates wrote:

> Thanks Scott
> You just started my day correctly.
> Gary
>
> On 15 Sep 2005 at 12:28, Scott Maxwell wrote:
>
> > My policy regarding doors and windows...ah, who needs them!  They only
> > mess up perfectly good walls that could otherwise be nice shearwalls!!
> > <grin>
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > OK, I'll try to be serious now.
> >
> > I think that James' post hit it pretty well...it will depend on your
> > scope of work as to whether you (i.e. the structural engineer) must do
> > some sort of specific "structural design" for a specific window or
> > door.
> >
> > As to item #1, it is my understanding that door manufacturer/supplier
> > are basically wrong.  The code (in the US at least) does provide
> > requirements for windows and doors, especially in hurricane areas.
> >
> > Now, typically, it is my experience that the design of the windows
> > and/or doors is the responsibility of the manufacturers.  Specs for
> > the windows and doors will usually call out those "performance"
> > requirements (i.e. wind parameters/pressures).  The manufacturer may
> > then hire someone to design their windows and/or doors, but as they
> > likely use the same things over and over again, presumably they will
> > have some "original" design and then that design might (or should) be
> > tested.  The question of attachment of the windows and/or doors is a
> > little tougher to answer.  That is something that should be handle in
> > the design of the building, but whether or not the structural engineer
> > does it I would say is still a matter of scope of work since
> > windows/doors are generally not structural elements (i.e. part of the
> > structural system of the building...NOT that they need not be
> > "structurally" designed)...and it is my experience that design of
> > non-structural elements may or may not be part of the SEOR's design
> > depending on scope of work.
> >
> > HTH,
> >
> > Scott
> > Adrian, MI
> >
> > On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Gary Hodgson & Associates wrote:
> >
> > > Everybody,
> > >
> > > As structural engineers, what is your policy regarding doors and
> > > windows.  I ask due to the following situations:
> > >
> > > 1. In a large industrial building (not mine), a large truck door
> > > panel buckled in a high wind.  When I reviewed it, the door did not
> > > meed code loading requirements.  The door supplier and manufacturer
> > > both maintain that the door does not have to meet the code as it is
> > > not part of the building.  The code says building accessories and
> > > components must meet code requirements.  Lots of argument ensued.
> > >
> > > 2. On a condominium job, another engineer who visited the site after
> > > the structural work was complete said that he didn't think the
> > > fastening of the window was adequate.  The municipality said I had
> > > to check this but the builder would not give me any information or
> > > open it up for me to check.  I told the city I was only responsible
> > > for the structure.
> > >
> > > 3. On a house, I did not think that a double door and transom had
> > > heavy enough framing members and asked for documentation.  I got no
> > > compliance whatsoever.
> > >
> > > I consider doors, windows and their fasteners the responsibility of
> > > the supplier/manufacturer but I'm curious to hear the lists'
> > > opinions on these situations and what they would have done.
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Gary
> > >
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