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RE: Informal Poll

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Easter egg hunt - I like that one.  We call it "le jeu des sept erreurs"  - The game of the 7 errors - otherwise known as "Spot the differences"  or something like that - a game you used to find in the weekend papers.
We also ask for changes to be identified.  But I think I will start using a formal procedure, advising the arch and the mechanical engineer at the end of the preliminary phase that we will take account only of those changes identified as such.  There are some good architects who realize that you can't guess what they've changed, but there are many who don't. 
If you don't formalise your request, then the client still is going to wonder why you missed the "obvious" change that the mechanical shaft has been moved, or that the concrete stairway has been changed.  I have had to explain that one a few times, but have always been able to produce a fax where I asked for openings etc. which then are repeated on my drawings.  You can always say "Where do you think the information for those items on my drawings came from ?  I didn't imagine them."
(Sorry abut the rave.  My wife and I were talking about the trade unions this evening.  Here in Quebec, they are very powerful, and it makes for a lot of frustration.)



génio structure

Kevin Below, ing., Ph.D. en Structures

290, rue Seigneuriale

Beauport, (Québec) G1C 3P8

Tél. : (418) 660-6969 poste 272

Fax : (418) 660-6463

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Feather [mailto:pfeather(--nospam--at)]
Sent: 15-Dec-05 13:46
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: Re: Informal Poll

We typically allow as many changes as required until entering CD phase.
Once we start CD drawings, we require changes be clouded (no easter egg hunts), and as long as they are typical coordination changes do not charge for additional services.
We do not draft structural over Arch backgrounds, once CD phase starts we convert the Arch into our own and only update pieces, never global updates.  It is more work on our end, but is a good quality control measure as you have to physically review changes rather than pasting a new architectural into your sheet.  Structural drawings are stand-alone documents.
This way we also do not have to update with each new "issue" of architectural.  Some things can wait while we progress with what we had.   The problem with constant updates is you end up spending all your time chasing geometry and not being able to move forward.  We also require hard copy coordination sets at 50%, 75%, and 90% that are what we "work" from rather than always having to worry if we have the latest CAD file.
We rarely if ever charge additional services unless there is a substantial change in the project.  By requiring pre-set coordination times we can control the flow of constant updates. They can update every other day for all I care, we will only deal with it at set stages.
For architects, the drafting is the job; sometimes you need to educate them that we actually have an entire level of work that is independent of updating drawings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Allen
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 9:40 AM
Subject: Informal Poll

I’m curious what the expectations of others are with regards to updated backgrounds received from architectural clients.


How many updates do you consider is reasonable in your basic scope of services before you think additional services are in order?




T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E.


Consulting Structural Engineers


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