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Re: The Most Ridiculous Item of the Day (with apologies to Bill O'Reilly)

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Bill....
   Nothing wrong with a little inter-departmental fireworks....*snicker*. 
Imagine the Building Dep't telling Public Works that all their light standards
need to be replaced!

Gary Grinstead, SE
www.structuralstuff.com



Quoting bcainse(--nospam--at)aol.com:

> Gary-
> What are you trying to do? Start an inter-departmental squabble in the city? 
> :<0
> I think your suggestion is an excellent idea and it is unlikely the public
> works light or signal poles will comply!
> Regards,
> Bill Cain, S.E.
> Berkeley CA
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Grinstead <garyg(--nospam--at)structuralstuff.com>
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Sent: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:03:44 -0800
> Subject: RE: The Most Ridiculous Item of the Day (with apologies to Bill
> O'Reilly)
> 
> 
> Bill:
> 1. Use the CBC definition of "Column" from section 1902...."a member with a
> ratio of height-to-least-lateral dimension of 3 or greater used primarily to
> support axial compressive load".  Since the only reason this would be deep
> enough to have a 3:1 ratio is due to the moment from the weight of the
> lighting
> element arm and wind load on the pole, this is not primarily supporting
> axial
> compressive load.  I'm sure the weight of this thing is not such that a pile
> would be required.  Therefore it should not be considered a column.
> 
> 2. Check and see if the Public Works department in your city publishes
> standard
> details for this type (or similar enough) poles.  If so, I'd bet money that
> they would not comply with 1% steel either.
> 
> Gary Grinstead, SE
> www.structuralstuff.com
> 
> 
> Quoting Bill Allen <T.W.Allen(--nospam--at)cox.net>:
> 
> > Thanks, Scott.
> > 
> > Unfortunately your argument won't help me.
> > 
> > First of all, he won't buy the fact that this element is a beam, not a
> > column. He says it's sticking out of the ground 2'-6" and "looks like a
> > column, so it must be a column". He said if the element terminated flush
> > with the ground or paving, he wouldn't have this requirement. Needless to
> > say, I wasn't impressed with his logic.
> > 
> > Secondly, 0.75Rho-b won't help. To make things simpler (for this simple
> > mind, anyway), if the section was 21" square instead of 24" round
> > (equivalent area), then 0.75Rho-b is 1.3%.
> > 
> > My next tactic: I'm going over his head. I'll report back with my results.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E.
> > ALLEN DESIGNS
> > Consulting Structural Engineers
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:23 AM
> > To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> > Subject: RE: The Most Ridiculous Item of the Day (with apologies to Bill
> > O'Reilly)
> > 
> > Bill,
> > 
> > I don't think that the code provisions that Sharon pointed out would
> > really apply as they are intended for R/C moment frames under seismic
> > loads.  While your situation is certainly gonna be under seismic loads, I
> > am not sure that it should be classified as a "frame".
> > 
> > As to the code section the plan checker is referencing, I agree that I
> > doubt s/he really meant 1910.16.8.6.  S/he probably really meant 1910.9.1,
> > which would land you in the same spot (i.e. minimum steel of 1%).
> > 
> > Your best arguement comes from section 1910.3.3.  It basically states that
> > for flexural members, if the design axial load strength (phi*Pu) is
> > smaller than 0.10*f'c*Ag or phi*Pb, then the ratio of reinforcement shall
> > not exceed 0.75 of the ratio phob (balanced reinforcment ratio) that would
> > produce balanced strain conditions for the sections under flexure without
> > the axial load.  I think that is what you might be looking for...
> > 
> > HTH,
> > 
> > Scott
> > Adrian, MI
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
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