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RE: Any Young Engineers Out There? - new AISC seminar on the spec/manual

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After such a "heated" discussion on the death of "ASD as we know it" I
was surprised by the offense taken to my offhand comment about cost-
that's what the lack of intonation in email will get you <grin>. 

The design aids are well worth every cent, I am just busy recovering
from some large additions to my personal library already this year.
Dr Murray was kind enough to head my Masters committee, and I was he
assigned teaching assistant for a class, so I would be very foolish to
have intended any ill will, and Dr. Easterling has been equally kind. 
No sarcasm was intended- the process of combining/updating/reorganizing
the two specs was just a huge undertaking and, as such, likely to
require some finishing touches. I realize all publications under go
that- I just hate going through the book and inking up typos in my messy
hand- the pristine pages look much nicer.

So, sorry to have unintentionally offended (must be time for me to go
back to lurking) The manual appears on backorder until February anyway
so it will make my summer reading list.

After wrestling with the seismic spec for so long, I was just interested
in what type of material would be included in the Seismic Design manual-
I had not heard anything about it until I saw it on the site since
everyone has been so focused on the 13ed. 

Regards,

Michelle Motchos, PE
Stevens & Wilkinson of SC
PO Drawer 7. Columbia SC 29202-0007
www.sc-sc.com 
mmotchos(--nospam--at)sw-sc.com 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:05 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Any Young Engineers Out There? - new AISC seminar on the
spec/manual

Charlie,

I will "dicker" a little with you.  Other major material standards (ACI
318, NDS, ASCE 7, and the MSJC) are rougly half the price of the ACI
manual.  Member prices for ASCE 7-05 is $93.75; for ACI 318-05 is $95;
for
the 2005 MSJC (masonry code) is $71.25; and 2005 NDS is $25.  That
compares with $175 member price for the 13th edition manual.  So, the
comment that you get "you get specifications and standards for that
money
from others" is not really accurate (unless you want to talk about AWS
D1.1...in which case, the AISC manual is cheap).

Now, I will agree that you get a WHOLE lot more in the AISC manual than
you get with most other material standards...with the possible exception
of the wood world.  You can get a bunch of potentially useful
tools/design
aid publications with the NDS (although they have not been updated to
the
2005 NDS level yet...and don't know if they will).  I bought the NDS and
the wood LRFD as well as other useful publications including WFCM in one
package from AWC that was for less than the AISC manual.

But, I will agree that AISC price for the manual is _NOT_ high.  I would
argue that it is rather comparable to the other major materials
standards
(with the possible exception of the wood stuff, which is significantly
less) if you buy both the material standard and a "design aid" type
book.
You can get the masonry code and the Masonry Designer's Guide for
roughly
the same price as the AISC manual...and get moderately close to the same
level of information (tough to compare apples and organges).  You can
get
ACI 318 and the PCA notes on ACI 318 for roughly the same price as the
AISC manual...and again get moderately similar level of information
(i.e.
code/specs plus quite a few design aides/examples/"tools").

Now, where AISC definitely "one ups" the others is that engineers can
actually get the specification/code documents for free.  Thus, one could
make the arguement while one pays roughly half for ACI 318 and half for
PCA notes (as an example), that person pays the full equal amount to get
the design aids from AISC and pays nothing for the AISC specs.  Which
means that another way to look at it is that your codes/specs are REALLY
cheap and your design aids are REALLY expensive...relatively speaking.
;-)

And while I am "dickering" with stuff, while I can agree there was maybe
(maybe not) some sarcasm in her comment about "working out bugs", there
is
also truth to it.  Mistakes/typos/errors or even bad code provisions are
a
fact of life.  That is why we have errata and also why there are
revisions
to codes...some times (although rather infrequently) on an "emergency"
basis.  Personally, if I were on a code commitee and had that type of a
comment directed at me, I likely would not be bothered by it.  Fact is
that there will be some bugs in the new manual that will have to be
"worked" out...it matters little how hard or well one works on
something...there are always bound to be at least typos/errors.

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI




On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Carter, Charlie wrote:

> Have you checked any prices lately? $175 is low, not high. You get
specifications and standards for that money from others. But hey, if you
don't want to spend it, don't. It's your money.
>
> I'm not sure what you want to know about the Seismic Manual, but if
you will clarify that, I'll be happy to respond.
>
> I'll take a pass on your sarcasm, except to say it is a shame that
some of the people who may feel criticized by it include your dear old
VT professors Tom Murray and Sam Easterling. They serve on the
Committees that are responsible for the development of the Manual and
Specification.
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michelle Motchos [mailto:mmotchos(--nospam--at)sw-sc.com]
> Sent: Tue 1/24/2006 5:10 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: Any Young Engineers Out There? - new AISC seminar on the
spec/manual
>
> At $175 a pop for members- I think I'll wait for the second printing
to
> get some of the bugs worked out!  Any ideas what will be coming in the
> (just as pricey) Seismic design manual listed in the AISC bookstore?
>
> Michelle Motchos, PE
> Stevens & Wilkinson of SC
> PO Drawer 7. Columbia SC 29202-0007
> www.sc-sc.com
> mmotchos(--nospam--at)sw-sc.com
>
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