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RE: Joints in retaining walls

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In my head (a scary place to be), a control joint is not an expansion joint.
A control joint _attempts_ to control where the crack is going to occur. In
this type of a joint (slab or wall), it's acceptable to run reinforcing
through. On the other hand, an expansion joint (the type the MIA, CMACN,
etc. recommends every 24-30 feet), reinforcing (except for chord steel)
shouldn't be continuous because of the residual stresses developed by the
elongation of the bars/shortening of the wall section. Obviously, expansion
joints aren't necessary in basement walls.

T. William (Bill) Allen, S.E.
ALLEN DESIGNS
Consulting Structural Engineers

-----Original Message-----
From: Alden Manipula [mailto:amanipula(--nospam--at)novagroupinc.net] 
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:09 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: Joints in retaining walls

Nels,

It seems all my concrete books detail a control joint w/ the reinforcing 
continuous across the joint.  However, none of the details i've seen are 
specifically for a retaining wall.

Nels Roselund wrote:
> Alden, Why would reinforcing steel need to cross the control joint?
>
> Nels Roselund, SE
> South San Gabriel, CA
> njineer(--nospam--at)att.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alden Manipula [mailto:amanipula(--nospam--at)novagroupinc.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:51 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Re: Joints in retaining walls
>
> I have another question regarding control joints in a retaining wall.
>
> For a regular wall we would show a V-groove control joint w/ sealant and 
> have the reinforcement continuous thru the joint.
>
> For a retaining wall, this detail would would seem to apply, but I'm 
> worried that water would enter once the sealant has deteriorated.  I'm 
> proposing a construction joint detail that looks more like an expansion 
> joint detail in that the reinforcing is stopped 6" short of the joint 
> and epoxy coated dowels are used across the joint. 
>
> Does this seem excessive?  How do others handle the reinforcing thru the 
> control joints of a retaining wall?
>
> Thanks.
>   
>>
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>>     
>
>   
>> Your following message has been delivered to the list
>>  seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org at 11:04:55 on 21 Mar 2006.
>>
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>>     
>
>   
>>
>> For a cantilevered concrete retaining wall I've been told to place 
>> joints in a long retaining wall 20'-0" o.c., maximum, with every 4th 
>> joint to be an expansion joint w/ some sort of compressible fill 
>> material.  This is supposedly a 'rule of thumb' type of specification.
>>
>> I, however, can not find a documented reference.  Does anyone know 
>> where this originated?
>>
>> Thanks, again.
>>
>> Alden
>>
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