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RE: Who decides top of concrete level?

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Being "harsh towards the engineer"??

Give me a break! Many engineers today assume that detailing firms always put
enough money in their quotes to draw things the way they think they should
be and then redraw things the way the EOR finally decides they should be.

Drawings that don't have all the information on them are not complete and
should not be issued until they are. (perfect world scenario).

There are many engineering firms that send their drawings out completed. Get
with the program!!

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Comfort [mailto:jcomfort(--nospam--at)ggbse.com] 
Sent: March 31, 2006 11:18 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Who decides top of concrete level?

I think some of you are being overly harsh towards the engineer.

As usual in a forum such as this we don't have all of the details.  We do
know that there is a possible "hole" in the structural drawings relating to
the T/Concrete or B/Column elevation, but it is not clear why.  This could
be an accidental omission by the engineer, or it could be a well-reasoned
omission due to circumstances we don't know.  Either way, the solution isn't
to get fed up and turn out a sloppy product.

Most likely the contractor didn't even look at the RFI and the engineer
misinterpreted your question.

I would ask the question to the engineer and contractor again and be sure to
indicate you are aware of the 6" minimum dimension but would like
clarification on whether to 1)hold the B/Column elevation constant and vary
the dimension from the B/Beam to B/Column by location, 2)vary the B/Column
elevation and use a constant dimension from B/Beam to B/Column (6", 8",
whatever), or 3)use a combination of both, in which case the
contractor/engineer would need to specify the T/Concrete elevation at each
column location.

If you don't get a valid response (especially since it is in both the
engineer's and contractor's best interest to avoid time-consuming field
fixes) I would detail the B/Column however is easiest (probably with a
constant B/Column elevation) and cloud them to be verified by the GC and
engineer.


-----Original Message-----
From: David Smith [mailto:smith1129(--nospam--at)charter.net]
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 7:36 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: Who decides top of concrete level?


No problem.  You are dealing with an incompetent or at least an engineer
that is not giving his project proper attention.

He will have to do it sooner or later.  He will have to sign off on the
steel details.

In the absence of details, just pick out a uniform depth that suits you and
detail to that depth.  Be sure to note on your approval drawings that he
will have to sign off on all dimensions.

See, he has to do it later in this case.  It always costs more to do it
later.  That is his problem.

Dave Smith
Smith Associates
Gainesville, Georgia
----- Original Message -----
From: "G Vishwanath" <gvshwnth(--nospam--at)yahoo.com>
To: "steel steel" <steel-detail(--nospam--at)yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 8:22 AM
Subject: Who decides top of concrete level?


> Who decides top of concrete Level?
>
> We are detailing an apartment building.
> There is a floor supported on steel beams very close
> to the base plate level of the columns.
> Neither the bottom of base plate level nor top of
> concrete level is explicitly indicated.
> Instead a detail in the Structural dwg indicates the
> top of concrete level as "minimum 6" below the bottom
> flange of the steel beams.
>
> This should have been easy.
>
> Except that the beams vary in depth from a minimum of
> 14" to a maximum of 30"
> So what do we do?
> Consider the deepest of them (30") and keep the the
> top of concrete level at 36" uniformly for all?
> Or go hopping all over the place and have different
> top of concrete levels for each case?
> We sent an rfi requesting the engineer to indicate the
> top of concrete levels to be considered.
> The engineer answers our rfi by simply quoting the
> detail that we have already seen and are not satisfied
> with.
>
> Since when is the top of concrete level being decided
> by the steel detailer.
> Indicating minimum 6" passes the buck to us.
> How will the foundation construction be done?
> Will they refer to steel dwgs?
>
> At some other places the engineer says "keep top of
> concrete at least 4" below sidewalk level. Coordinate
> with Arch dwgs"
>
> What does at least 4" mean?
> Again the buck is being passed on to us?
>
> We looked up the Arch dwgs.
> An elevation of the building is shown.
> The ground level varies haphazardly.
> The slopes are not uniform and vary along the length
> of the building.
> The ground slope is also not uniform.
> Are we to decide the sidewalk levels from this ?
>
> I have misgivings about this project.
> Any experiences to share?
> Any opinions or advice is welcome.
> Regards
> Vish
>
>
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