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FW: Steel-Detail: Who decides top of concrete level?

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I suspect I could supply a hundred more anecdotes on what we go through on a
daily basis but this one sums it up quite well.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: steel-detail(--nospam--at)yahoogroups.com [mailto:steel-detail(--nospam--at)yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of cap'n ron
Sent: March 31, 2006 4:18 PM
To: steel-detail(--nospam--at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Steel-Detail: Who decides top of concrete level?

Vish:

I feel your pain.  The COSP is quite explicit in that this information must
be furnished on the design drawings (Section 3.1 (c). The issue becomes not
can you do it, but should you do it.  Anything you supply of your own
volition exposes your customer to liability.  That is why you would first
inform him of the problem, tell him it's not your (nor his) responsibility
and ask him if he wants to assume it. Also let him know that you can't start
this job without that information.

As to the engineer's non-responsive replies, I have formulated a dictum know
informally as "Yeager's Law of Half-Assed Answers."  It goes something like
this:  when I have reached my upper limit of frustration I say:"One more
half-assed answer on this job and I'm gonna throw it in the corner and never
look at it again!" Sometimes this even works. But it really is unrealistic
to think that these people will get any smarter or any more concerned about
this job. At least the GC may take the bull by the horns and assume some
level of control to get the job moving forward.

I have had more than one job where the design drawings were ignored and my
drawings were used as the "official" drawings.  All I can say about that is
that at least the steel fit.

Ron Yeager
rgy(--nospam--at)penn.com
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: G Vishwanath 
  To: steel steel 
  Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 8:22 AM
  Subject: Steel-Detail: Who decides top of concrete level?


  Who decides top of concrete Level?

  We are detailing an apartment building.
  There is a floor supported on steel beams very close
  to the base plate level of the columns.
  Neither the bottom of base plate level nor top of
  concrete level is explicitly indicated.
  Instead a detail in the Structural dwg indicates the
  top of concrete level as "minimum 6" below the bottom
  flange of the steel beams.

  This should have been easy.

  Except that the beams vary in depth from a minimum of
  14" to a maximum of 30"
  So what do we do?
  Consider the deepest of them (30") and keep the the
  top of concrete level at 36" uniformly for all?
  Or go hopping all over the place and have different
  top of concrete levels for each case?
  We sent an rfi requesting the engineer to indicate the
  top of concrete levels to be considered.
  The engineer answers our rfi by simply quoting the
  detail that we have already seen and are not satisfied
  with.

  Since when is the top of concrete level being decided
  by the steel detailer.
  Indicating minimum 6" passes the buck to us.
  How will the foundation construction be done?
  Will they refer to steel dwgs?

  At some other places the engineer says "keep top of
  concrete at least 4" below sidewalk level. Coordinate
  with Arch dwgs"

  What does at least 4" mean?
  Again the buck is being passed on to us?

  We looked up the Arch dwgs.
  An elevation of the building is shown.
  The ground level varies haphazardly.
  The slopes are not uniform and vary along the length
  of the building.
  The ground slope is also not uniform.
  Are we to decide the sidewalk levels from this ?

  I have misgivings about this project.
  Any experiences to share?
  Any opinions or advice is welcome.
  Regards
  Vish


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