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RE: Who decides top of concrete level?

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I am with Dave on this one.  Too many engineers rush to
get drawings out because of the owner or architect. Up
here, it is professional mis-conduct to issue incomplete
drawings purposely.  If it is accidental, you might be
able to grovel a little bit and get off. Take the time
to get the drawings as correct as possible.  Every time
I have been rushed, it was unreasonableness on the part
of the owner or architect.  The latest was rush, rush
by the architect who then sat on them in his office for
two weeks so he could refer to them, made archie changes
and didn't inform me of them.
I have sat on both sides as a fabricator and a consultant
and I can say there are a lot of incomplete drawings
comings out of both engineers and architects offices.
Gary

On 31 Mar 2006 at 14:05, dave lowen wrote:

> 2 nerves as a matter of fact. The first was the engineer's response to Vish.
> The second was your defense of him. I have an extremely short fuse when it
> comes to dealing with this type of response.
> 
> When I started in this business, structures were riveted so I have had a few
> years dealing with clowns like this one. I'm just too old to start listening
> to excuses.
> 
> Dave 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Comfort [mailto:jcomfort(--nospam--at)ggbse.com] 
> Sent: March 31, 2006 12:10 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: Who decides top of concrete level?
> 
> >Being "harsh towards the engineer"??
> >
> >Give me a break! Many engineers today assume that detailing firms always
> put
> >enough money in their quotes to draw things the way they think they should
> >be and then redraw things the way the EOR finally decides they should be.
> 
> I guess I hit a nerve there Dave.  I just don't think it is productive to
> write emails talking about someone being incompetent (as the previous poster
> labeled the engineer) when we don't know all of the circumstances.  Maybe
> the drawings are as complete as the engineer could get them in the time
> constraints placed on them by the owner and the information available.  Do
> you know all of the circumstances regarding this project?  If you do, please
> enlighten the rest of us.  If not, please provide a constructive suggestion
> on how to resolve the problem at hand with the information available.
> 
> 
> >Drawings that don't have all the information on them are not complete and
> >should not be issued until they are. (perfect world scenario).
> 
> This sentence and phrase seem to contradict each other.  It's not a perfect
> world and sometimes drawings do go out incomplete (either accidentally or
> purposefully).  It's obviously best if the drawings do go out perfect every
> time, but I don't think it is reasonable to expect this every time on every
> project.
> 
> 
> >There are many engineering firms that send their drawings out completed.
> Get
> >with the program!!
> 
> If you are alluding to some magical firm that has never had an RFI generated
> from any of their drawings, please congratulate them for me (and if it's not
> too much trouble ask them how to cure cancer, solve world hunger and bring
> about world peace).
> 
> Josh
> 
> 
> 
> 
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