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Re: Who decides top of concrete level?

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Rick,

One of the better responses on this thread, especially the last paragraph.

I see / have seen both sides of the issue. Design firms will not improve if they are not held accountable for the quality of their work. If the contractors do not place the problem where it lies, nothing will change for the next project. The same team of incompetence will be awarded the contract, after all the last on got built and the owner does not understand where the issues were.

But I also just recently (last two weeks) have had to deal with review submittals based on the 80% submittal in September instead of the For Construction set issued in December. Frequently it is the last 20% of the design effort where everyone gets to coordinate with the other team members.

We could flip the thread also with the poor quality of detailing we frequently get, half-assed submittals on 11x17 instead of proper drawing submittals, our own drawings re-submitted to ourselves as if this somehow meets detailing expectations, drawings that are poorly coordinated and very difficult to review, modifications in the review drawings that were never asked for ahead of time, submittals in too many little portions instead of global control, RFI's for the sake of RFI's because they apparently cannot read drawings, and so on.


Paul Feather PE, SE
www.SE-Solutions.net
pfeather(--nospam--at)SE-Solutions.net
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Stone" <rstone(--nospam--at)madisonconcrete.com>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: Who decides top of concrete level?




Oh please. This sounds a lot like a very skimpy effort on the part of the
Engineer.

As a detailer, you have no duty to set those top of pier elevations. Look at
ASIC MOSP and Commentary, section 3.
The poor GC or CM usually will not set them either, they just pass paper
back and forth (sorry, that is an opinion) and hope someone else will fill
any "holes" in the documents.
IMHO, you should stop where you are right now and write a RFI requesting all
top of pier elevations. Send in an anchor bolt plan with all top of pier
elevations shown "XX-XX" with clouds and scream "provide top of pier
elevations" in writing. Raise the stakes, say you will not continue until
you have them. State a day for day  schedule delay. Your customer, in turn,
should be aggressive on this. The GC/CM that parcelled out scope really
needs to push this issue. The concrete contractor is probably guessing the
same thing about the elevations, and he is probably looking for the same
information to pass on to his detailer to develop placing drawings. If you
guess, odds are that they will not necessarily be correct, and when Mr.
Engineer does review them, there will be changes which is re-work for you.
Or, worse yet, when one of the elevations YOU established is above the
sidewalk, you stand a chance that you or your client will be thrown under
the bus to pay for fixing it, because you set it to begin with, even if
everyone else in the "review" process missed the conflict or condition. Make
the design "professionals" do their job.

In defense of the engineer, the GC/CM may be trying to fast track the
process and thus bid, award, and expect the subcontractors for steel and
concrete to develop their work from drawings that may only be at a design
development level. If so, shame on them. They need to step up and make good
on their role by being a little more track than fast.


Good luck.



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