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Re: Is ASCE Competing Against Us?

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Bill:

Call me dumb, but I did not quite get whether that meant you wanted to
hear reasons why it considered necessary and why I don't really "buy"
those reasons.

FWIW, do let me point out that I do STRONGLY believe that a Master's
degree is a worthwhile and very useful thing and that many engineers can
(and ultimately do) gain significant benefit from attaining a Master's
degree.  I just don't think that it should be required in order to obtain
a license.  As a case, in point, I do have my Master's degree and got it
right after my Bachelor's degree (and actually have worked toward a PhD),
so I do feel that (advanced) education is important and very useful.  But,
it was MY choice to get my advanced degrees.  And it was a good
choice...for me.

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI


On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 bcainse(--nospam--at)aol.com wrote:

> Scott-
> We'll take it in installements since you've now "rung the bell."  :<)
> Regards,
> Bill Cain, S.E.
> Berkeley CA
>
> Scott Maxwell wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
>
> <snip> ....
>  I would address the various "excuses" for
> why this is necessary, but don't want to waste people's time unless there
> is a desire for the debate here.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
> Adrian, MI
>
>
> On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Caldwell, Stan wrote:
>
> > Scott & Bill:
> >
> > As a current member of the ASCE Board of Direction, I can personally attest
> that the second rule of ASCE conduct is "Thou shall not compete with the ASCE
> members and their employers."  [The first rule, of course, is "Thou shall not
> violate the ASCE Code of Ethics."]  This policy, more than any other, is why the
> ASCE Board voted to dissolve the Civil Engineering Research Foundation (CERF)
> last January.  In fact, I was one of the three directors assigned to write the
> report that led to that decision.
> >
> > From time to time, various public agencies ask ASCE to lead independent, third
> party reviews of substantial civil engineering issues.  The first such review
> might have been in 1872, involving the management of the design and construction
> of the Brooklyn Bridge.  Some recent examples include the bombing of the Murrah
> Federal Building, the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers, the terrorist
> attack on the Pentagon, and the failure of the levees in New Orleans.  The
> Dulles Metrorail Tunnel is merely the most recent such request.
> >
> > ASCE responds to these requests by putting together volunteer panels of
> nationally and internationally recognized experts, providing staff resources to
> support their activities, and facilitating their meetings, presentations, and
> publications.  The experts are individuals, not companies.  They work as
> volunteers with expenses partially reimbursed.  The nominal costs of the
> independent reviews varies based on the circumstances involved and the
> requesting agencies are billed for these costs.
> >
> > Volunteer service as a professional engineer is a rewarding endeavor in many
> ways, but not financially.  It can also be addictive.  Since last October, I
> have spent an average of 3 days/week and 3 trips/month on ASCE business.  In
> return, I receive no compensation beyond partial reimbursement for travel
> expenses.  I am grateful for having a family and an employer that will tolerate
> this for the next three years.  It also explains why the SEAINT Listserv is no
> longer distracted with my off-topic and politically incorrect posts.
> >
> > It is easy for a design engineer to sit at his/her computer and criticize the
> nonprofit organizations that serve the needs of engineers.  It is quite another
> thing to get actively involved with one or more of these organizations.  Such
> involvement can greatly alter an engineer's perspective.
> >
> > Now I must sign off.  Seven emails have arrived from ASCE while I was typing
> this message.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., F.ASCE, F.AEI
> > ASCE Technical Region Director
> > President, Building Security Council
> > Vice President, Halff Associates
> > Dallas, Texas
> >
> > ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:30 PM
> > To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> > Subject: RE: Is ASCE Competing Against Us?
> >
> > Bill:
> >
> > You hit on something that was "buzzing" in the back of my head during this
> thread...there is nothing in that press statement that the ASCE-led panel that
> would say one way or another if there is compensation involved.  The majority of
> folks that responded assumed that this was something that ASCE was contracted to
> do.  I, however, assumed when I first saw this "news" in my ASCE email
> newsletter assumed that it was going to be an ASCE-led volunteer panel, much
> like every single ASCE committee is comprised of volunteers that don't get paid
> for their work.  When this thread popped up, I must admit that I went back and
> re-read the news release and I cannot see anything that says one way or the
> other.  Thus, I don't know if it is a paid effort or not.  The only thing that I
> can say is that we may all be potentially guilty of making an assumption based
> upon our preconceived notions of ASCE.  I made a "positive" assumption that it
> was NOT a paid effort, but rather ASCE "volunteering" to help cause I generally
> thing positive things of ASCE (except when you start to talk about their whole
> Master's degree as the first professional degree push).
> > It appears that you made a "negative" assumption that it was a paid effort due
> to what appears to be your somewhat negative (from my perspective at
> > least) view of ASCE.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Scott
> > Adrian, MI
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Polhemus, Bill wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I say this with all due respect to folks like Stan Caldwell, who I
> > > know act out of a certain sense of altruism. And I don't mean to say
> > > that business interests are anathema. And further, if I'm
> > > misunderstanding this--if the individuals or ASCE itself isn't getting
> > > any significant compensation for this and they're doing it out of
> > > public spiritedness--I profoundly apologize.
> > >
> >
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