Need a book? Engineering books recommendations...

Return to index: [Subject] [Thread] [Date] [Author]

RE: Is ASCE Competing Against Us?

[Subject Prev][Subject Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Mark:

It appears that you must have taken the civil engineering curriculum at Poly. In the ArchEngr curriculum, we took courses in concrete (including columns), steel and timber in our junior year. Hans (I am old) taught us prestressed concrete and shells in our senior year as well as "indeterminate structures". The structures course in the senior year was 5 units per quarter plus the senior project. (I did two as my education got interrupted by the Korea action: A full size hyperbolic paraboloid out of plywood and then single span concrete bridges). The senior year also included soil mechanics, ethics and a few other technical courses. We were really lacking in social skills types of courses.

Of course I had problems with the EIT as it was geared towards civils and I lacked the hydraulics and thermo courses which I have never used anyway. Passed the CE exam the first time, but had worked for a few years then got the SE exam in four years after I came back from an assignment in South America for John Blume and Associates and then worked in their earthquake research division.

Picking who you work for is a good decision. I picked basically the San Francisco area, (could have been Los Angeles just as well). But the extension courses at Cal were great, because they were taught by practicing structural engineers. I was fortunate enough to take a course from T.Y. Lin and another from Ashraf Habibullah.

What prospective students need to do is to compare curriculums. Our dean used to say, "It isn't that Cal Poly is so good; it's because the other schools are so bad."

Also, we tried not to hire people with their doctorate.



Neil Moore, SE, SECB



At 02:12 PM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
Lawyers have what amounts to a seven year education. Doctors, an eight year
education plus internship and residency. Engineers, only a paltry four. I
believe that engineering degrees should be at least a five year program.
Some schools actually are a five year program, or were. I think Cal Poly San
Luis Obispo had a five year program for architectural engineering, or was it
architecture? I don't remember.

A four year degree only gives a very basic set of tools. If I hadn't
petitioned to take a number of graduate courses I wouldn't have learned
about concrete columns, masonry, wood, post-tensioned design or steel moment
resisting frames among other things.

A five year program should be the minimum.

Mark E. Deardorff, Structural Engineer
Burkett & Wong
San Diego, CA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 1:51 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Re: Is ASCE Competing Against Us?
>
> Bill:
>
> Call me dumb, but I did not quite get whether that meant you wanted to
> hear reasons why it considered necessary and why I don't really "buy"
> those reasons.
>
> FWIW, do let me point out that I do STRONGLY believe that a Master's
> degree is a worthwhile and very useful thing and that many engineers can
> (and ultimately do) gain significant benefit from attaining a Master's
> degree.  I just don't think that it should be required in order to obtain
> a license.  As a case, in point, I do have my Master's degree and got it
> right after my Bachelor's degree (and actually have worked toward a PhD),
> so I do feel that (advanced) education is important and very useful.  But,
> it was MY choice to get my advanced degrees.  And it was a good
> choice...for me.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
> Adrian, MI
>
>
> On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 bcainse(--nospam--at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > Scott-
> > We'll take it in installements since you've now "rung the bell."  :<)
> > Regards,
> > Bill Cain, S.E.
> > Berkeley CA
> >
> > Scott Maxwell wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > <snip> ....
> >  I would address the various "excuses" for
> > why this is necessary, but don't want to waste people's time unless
> there
> > is a desire for the debate here.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Scott
> > Adrian, MI
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Caldwell, Stan wrote:
> >
> > > Scott & Bill:
> > >
> > > As a current member of the ASCE Board of Direction, I can personally
> attest
> > that the second rule of ASCE conduct is "Thou shall not compete with the
> ASCE
> > members and their employers."  [The first rule, of course, is "Thou
> shall not
> > violate the ASCE Code of Ethics."]  This policy, more than any other, is
> why the
> > ASCE Board voted to dissolve the Civil Engineering Research Foundation
> (CERF)
> > last January.  In fact, I was one of the three directors assigned to
> write the
> > report that led to that decision.
> > >
> > > From time to time, various public agencies ask ASCE to lead
> independent, third
> > party reviews of substantial civil engineering issues.  The first such
> review
> > might have been in 1872, involving the management of the design and
> construction
> > of the Brooklyn Bridge.  Some recent examples include the bombing of the
> Murrah
> > Federal Building, the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers, the
> terrorist
> > attack on the Pentagon, and the failure of the levees in New Orleans.
> The
> > Dulles Metrorail Tunnel is merely the most recent such request.
> > >
> > > ASCE responds to these requests by putting together volunteer panels
> of
> > nationally and internationally recognized experts, providing staff
> resources to
> > support their activities, and facilitating their meetings,
> presentations, and
> > publications.  The experts are individuals, not companies.  They work as
> > volunteers with expenses partially reimbursed.  The nominal costs of the
> > independent reviews varies based on the circumstances involved and the
> > requesting agencies are billed for these costs.
> > >
> > > Volunteer service as a professional engineer is a rewarding endeavor
> in many
> > ways, but not financially.  It can also be addictive.  Since last
> October, I
> > have spent an average of 3 days/week and 3 trips/month on ASCE business.
> In
> > return, I receive no compensation beyond partial reimbursement for
> travel
> > expenses.  I am grateful for having a family and an employer that will
> tolerate
> > this for the next three years.  It also explains why the SEAINT Listserv
> is no
> > longer distracted with my off-topic and politically incorrect posts.
> > >
> > > It is easy for a design engineer to sit at his/her computer and
> criticize the
> > nonprofit organizations that serve the needs of engineers.  It is quite
> another
> > thing to get actively involved with one or more of these organizations.
> Such
> > involvement can greatly alter an engineer's perspective.
> > >
> > > Now I must sign off.  Seven emails have arrived from ASCE while I was
> typing
> > this message.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Stan R. Caldwell, P.E., F.ASCE, F.AEI
> > > ASCE Technical Region Director
> > > President, Building Security Council
> > > Vice President, Halff Associates
> > > Dallas, Texas
> > >
> > >
> ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤
> ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Scott Maxwell [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)engin.umich.edu]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:30 PM
> > > To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> > > Subject: RE: Is ASCE Competing Against Us?
> > >
> > > Bill:
> > >
> > > You hit on something that was "buzzing" in the back of my head during
> this
> > thread...there is nothing in that press statement that the ASCE-led
> panel that
> > would say one way or another if there is compensation involved.  The
> majority of
> > folks that responded assumed that this was something that ASCE was
> contracted to
> > do.  I, however, assumed when I first saw this "news" in my ASCE email
> > newsletter assumed that it was going to be an ASCE-led volunteer panel,
> much
> > like every single ASCE committee is comprised of volunteers that don't
> get paid
> > for their work.  When this thread popped up, I must admit that I went
> back and
> > re-read the news release and I cannot see anything that says one way or
> the
> > other.  Thus, I don't know if it is a paid effort or not.  The only
> thing that I
> > can say is that we may all be potentially guilty of making an assumption
> based
> > upon our preconceived notions of ASCE.  I made a "positive" assumption
> that it
> > was NOT a paid effort, but rather ASCE "volunteering" to help cause I
> generally
> > thing positive things of ASCE (except when you start to talk about their
> whole
> > Master's degree as the first professional degree push).
> > > It appears that you made a "negative" assumption that it was a paid
> effort due
> > to what appears to be your somewhat negative (from my perspective at
> > > least) view of ASCE.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Scott
> > > Adrian, MI
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Polhemus, Bill wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I say this with all due respect to folks like Stan Caldwell, who I
> > > > know act out of a certain sense of altruism. And I don't mean to say
> > > > that business interests are anathema. And further, if I'm
> > > > misunderstanding this--if the individuals or ASCE itself isn't
> getting
> > > > any significant compensation for this and they're doing it out of
> > > > public spiritedness--I profoundly apologize.
> > > >
> > >
> > > ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> > > *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> > > *
> > > *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> > > *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> > > *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> > > *
> > > *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> > > *
> > > *   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> > > *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> > > *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> > > *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> > > ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> > *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> > *
> > *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> > *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> > *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> > *
> > *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> > *
> > *   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> > *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> > *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> > *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> > ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********
> >
>
> ******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
> *   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
> *
> *   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
> *   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
> *   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
> *
> *   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
> *
> *   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you
> *   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
> *   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
> *   site at: http://www.seaint.org
> ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********




******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
*
*   This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers
*   Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To
*   subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
*   Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you
*   send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted
*   without your permission. Make sure you visit our web
*   site at: http://www.seaint.org
******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********



******* ****** ******* ******** ******* ******* ******* ***
*   Read list FAQ at: http://www.seaint.org/list_FAQ.asp
* * This email was sent to you via Structural Engineers * Association of Southern California (SEAOSC) server. To * subscribe (no fee) or UnSubscribe, please go to:
*
*   http://www.seaint.org/sealist1.asp
*
* Questions to seaint-ad(--nospam--at)seaint.org. Remember, any email you * send to the list is public domain and may be re-posted * without your permission. Make sure you visit our web * site at: http://www.seaint.org ******* ****** ****** ****** ******* ****** ****** ********