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Re: Re: More on level of Detailing

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When I do my own engineering on average size SFDs, I'd say that my experience is about the same as GMs.  12-15 sheets of Structural, although I have the added benefit of A and E details within the same detail in some cases, so overall, I can cut down on the A details to a large extent by integrating them into the S details.

Don





Out here in California doing residential, here is my experience in drawings:

On all my projects:

 2 sheets of general notes.1 sheet of shearwall construction details1 sheet of typical concrete details (slabs, corners, footing steps, laps)1 sheet of typical floor framing details1 sheet of typical roof and ceiling detailsSo right there, with only typical details I have 6 sheets.

Then I have main floor, upper floor, upper ceiling, and roof framing plans (4 sheets)

Depending on the size of the home, I may have a separate shearwall only plan that
has the shearwall types and hold-downs for each level.

Then I generally have at least 1 sheet of details specific to the home, but have had as much as 10 for hillside homes, basements, ones with a lot of balconies or elevated decks, or ones that have several unique cross-sections.

I did a 27 unit townhome project on 27 sheets.
I did a 7500 sq. foot house on a hillside and had 24 sheets.

The client got a lot of sheets for a competive fee, but I was juststarting out and didn't have a great handle on fees at the time. If Icharged what I should have on those, I wouldn't have gotten eitherproject. Luckily, both of those projects went very smooth and all thephone calls from the contractor were answered by telling them whatdetail to look at.

I'd say, typically most 1 story homes I'm looking at 9-12 sheets and most 2 story homes about 12-15 sheets.

I did a 10 bedroom home on a hillside with 3 different building (steel, conc. and ICF) materials and that was about 25 sheets. The fee on this one was still low in retrospec, but I made assumptions that information would be provided by the client and it wasn't, so it turned out to be not profitable, but interesting ,yet extremely frustrating to work on.

Also, I draw big so it's clear, so my details take up a lot of space on the paper and I was told early on that making the details easily legible is more important than trying to save 2 bucks a set on plotting costs.

The contractor is the key of course. Do they read the notes, do they know to ask the right questions, do they call BEFORE they decide to invent something you've got to now prove works. I try to draw all the unique conditions on a project so the bids are accurate and the client isn't hearing "The engineer didn't draw this condition, so it's a change order" from the contractor. Means my fees are higher than others, that I lose out on a lot of projects because of that, but my repeat clients who take up about 90% of my work seem to appreciate this and go to bat for me with the client if they complain about the fee.

-gm


On 8/15/06, Joe Grill <jgrill(--nospam--at)swiaz.com> wrote:Yes Bill, I forgot to include that next step.  I was thinking about the
lawsuit end when the contractor is sitting in the witness chair telling all
about how the engineer didn't detail the project adequately.

Joseph R. Grill, P.E. (Structural)
Shephard - Wesnitzer, Inc.
Civil Engineering and Surveying
P.O. Box 3924
Sedona, AZ  86340
PHONE (928) 282-1061
FAX (928) 282-2058
jgrill(--nospam--at)swiaz.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Polhemus, Bill [mailto:BPolhemus(--nospam--at)wje.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:59 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: More on level of Detailing

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Grill [mailto:jgrill(--nospam--at)swiaz.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:41 AM

What I have found is that the custom home
contractor is always the smartest guy on the project until there is a
problem.  Then it's "I'm not an engineer, I'm just an old time, down to
earth all around good guy contractor, I dunno nothin bout no
engineerin".


-----/Original Message/-----

That is, until you give YOUR solution. Then, he will inform you that in
the twenty-seven years he's been doing this, he's never seen anyone try
to do what you're suggesting.

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-- 
-gm


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