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RE: Ground bearing slabs without control joints

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Also, consider type of finish vs. air entrainment.  Do you really need
the air?

Bob Garner

-----Original Message-----
From: Harold Sprague [mailto:spraguehope(--nospam--at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 7:50 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Ground bearing slabs without control joints

David,

>You mention using controlled mixes (which I assume use Type K cement)
for
>large industrial flloors.  Are they also applicable for other types of
>slabs?
Yes
>
>I am working on a garbage transfer facility where the Client does not
want
>a
>topping - just a dense mix with air entrainment.  We obviously want to
>minimize the number of joints in this type of floor.  Do the shrinkage
>compensating mixes have any limitations that would restrict their use
in
>such environments?
Not particularly.

You can use the type K's in almost any application.  They can be a
challenge
to apply properly because they expand slightly.  I would urge you to
develop
a mix using all precautions for shrinkage that you can.  You may or may
not
elect to use a type K.  Consider someone who REALLY understands concrete

mixes like Shilstone to help develop a mix.  Have a preconstruction
meeting
with all of the entities.  You will need the ready mix supplier, the
pumper,
the flat work contractor, the grade prep contractor, and you will need a

test placement.  Mix prep should include assessment of all of the
components, strength tests, and shrinkage testing.  The test placement
is
critical.  For a garbage transfer slab, I would highly suggest a surface

hardener.

This is one of those projects that you could develop hundreds of pages
of
perscriptive specifications or a page or 2 of a performance
specification. 
When one of the many entities has a problem, the project suffers.  If
you
have one stop responsibility for the floor slab, it is much easier to
manage.

You could also just hire someone like Kalman Flooring
(http://www.kalmanfloor.com/) (800) 525-7840.  Talk to Carl.  They will
do
it all.  All that they do is industrial floors including garbage
transfer
stations.  You could put out a performance specification with experience
and
volume requirements that would tailor what your client needs for
performance
to someone like Kalman Flooring.  You would require in a performance
spec.
that the contractor have placed 16 million square feet of type K
concrete
floors and must have been in business for at least 80 years.  You would
probably get Kalman.

In any performance spec. require references for the project that you
have. 
Most importantly, call the references and verify the performance.  Trust
but
verify.

If nothing else, go to a Kalman project, talk to them, and watch what
they
do.  You will learn a lot.  There are other good industrial flooring
companies out there.  I just have the most familiarity with Kalman.


Regards,
Harold Sprague





>From: "M. David Finley, P.E., P.A." <davidfinley(--nospam--at)bizsea.rr.com>
>Reply-To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
>To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
>Subject: RE: Ground bearing slabs without control joints
>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:44:32 -0500
>
>Harold,
>
>You mention using controlled mixes (which I assume use Type K cement)
for
>large industrial flloors.  Are they also applicable for other types of
>slabs?
>
>I am working on a garbage transfer facility where the Client does not
want
>a
>topping - just a dense mix with air entrainment.  We obviously want to
>minimize the number of joints in this type of floor.  Do the shrinkage
>compensating mixes have any limitations that would restrict their use
in
>such environments?
>
>David Finley
>M. David Finley, P.E., P.A.
>2086 SW Main Boulevard - Suite 111
>Lake City, FL  32025
>386-752-6400
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Harold Sprague [mailto:spraguehope(--nospam--at)hotmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:11 AM
>To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
>Subject: RE: Ground bearing slabs without control joints
>
>
>It is done all of the time.
>Kalman flooring does industrial floors routinely with controled mixes
with
>shrinkage compensating concrete, and details that allow the concrete to
>shrink in a controled fashion.
>The water and waste water industry does it with a lot of reinforcing
steel.
>The paving industry does it with continuous reinforced concrete paving
>CRCP.
>
>Regards,
>Harold Sprague
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Mark L. Puccio" <mpuccio(--nospam--at)mpsqrd.com>
> >Reply-To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> >To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> >Subject: Ground bearing slabs without control joints
> >Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:45:13 -0600
> >
> >We have a project in which for various reasons we wish to have a slab
on
> >ground without control joints. Section 7.12 of ACI discusses minimum
temp
> >and shrinkage steel for structural slabs but the commentary states
this
>is
> >not intended for SOG. Would using the minimum areas of steel p =
0.0018
>be
> >conservative?  If section 7.12.1.2 & 9.2.7 (for restrained slabs) is
> >followed how would you practically quantify the force of shrinkage?
> >
> >
> >
> >The floor area is about 150x 65 and we could probably divided this up

>into
> >thirds with moving construction joints.
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks for your thoughts.
> >
> >
> >
> >Mark L. Puccio P.E., S.E.
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
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