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RE: Ground bearing slabs without control joints

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David,

You mention using controlled mixes (which I assume use Type K cement) for
large industrial flloors.  Are they also applicable for other types of
slabs?
Yes

I am working on a garbage transfer facility where the Client does not want a
topping - just a dense mix with air entrainment.  We obviously want to
minimize the number of joints in this type of floor.  Do the shrinkage
compensating mixes have any limitations that would restrict their use in
such environments?
Not particularly.

You can use the type K's in almost any application. They can be a challenge to apply properly because they expand slightly. I would urge you to develop a mix using all precautions for shrinkage that you can. You may or may not elect to use a type K. Consider someone who REALLY understands concrete mixes like Shilstone to help develop a mix. Have a preconstruction meeting with all of the entities. You will need the ready mix supplier, the pumper, the flat work contractor, the grade prep contractor, and you will need a test placement. Mix prep should include assessment of all of the components, strength tests, and shrinkage testing. The test placement is critical. For a garbage transfer slab, I would highly suggest a surface hardener.

This is one of those projects that you could develop hundreds of pages of perscriptive specifications or a page or 2 of a performance specification. When one of the many entities has a problem, the project suffers. If you have one stop responsibility for the floor slab, it is much easier to manage.

You could also just hire someone like Kalman Flooring (http://www.kalmanfloor.com/) (800) 525-7840. Talk to Carl. They will do it all. All that they do is industrial floors including garbage transfer stations. You could put out a performance specification with experience and volume requirements that would tailor what your client needs for performance to someone like Kalman Flooring. You would require in a performance spec. that the contractor have placed 16 million square feet of type K concrete floors and must have been in business for at least 80 years. You would probably get Kalman.

In any performance spec. require references for the project that you have. Most importantly, call the references and verify the performance. Trust but verify.

If nothing else, go to a Kalman project, talk to them, and watch what they do. You will learn a lot. There are other good industrial flooring companies out there. I just have the most familiarity with Kalman.


Regards,
Harold Sprague





From: "M. David Finley, P.E., P.A." <davidfinley(--nospam--at)bizsea.rr.com>
Reply-To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
Subject: RE: Ground bearing slabs without control joints
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:44:32 -0500

Harold,

You mention using controlled mixes (which I assume use Type K cement) for
large industrial flloors.  Are they also applicable for other types of
slabs?

I am working on a garbage transfer facility where the Client does not want a
topping - just a dense mix with air entrainment.  We obviously want to
minimize the number of joints in this type of floor.  Do the shrinkage
compensating mixes have any limitations that would restrict their use in
such environments?

David Finley
M. David Finley, P.E., P.A.
2086 SW Main Boulevard - Suite 111
Lake City, FL  32025
386-752-6400



-----Original Message-----
From: Harold Sprague [mailto:spraguehope(--nospam--at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:11 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Ground bearing slabs without control joints


It is done all of the time.
Kalman flooring does industrial floors routinely with controled mixes with
shrinkage compensating concrete, and details that allow the concrete to
shrink in a controled fashion.
The water and waste water industry does it with a lot of reinforcing steel.
The paving industry does it with continuous reinforced concrete paving CRCP.

Regards,
Harold Sprague





>From: "Mark L. Puccio" <mpuccio(--nospam--at)mpsqrd.com>
>Reply-To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
>To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
>Subject: Ground bearing slabs without control joints
>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:45:13 -0600
>
>We have a project in which for various reasons we wish to have a slab on
>ground without control joints. Section 7.12 of ACI discusses minimum temp
>and shrinkage steel for structural slabs but the commentary states this is >not intended for SOG. Would using the minimum areas of steel p = 0.0018 be
>conservative?  If section 7.12.1.2 & 9.2.7 (for restrained slabs) is
>followed how would you practically quantify the force of shrinkage?
>
>
>
>The floor area is about 150x 65 and we could probably divided this up into
>thirds with moving construction joints.
>
>
>
>Thanks for your thoughts.
>
>
>
>Mark L. Puccio P.E., S.E.
>

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