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RE: Design Checking - Here and Now and Future of Engineering (UNCLASSIFIED)

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Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED 
Caveats: NONE

Garbage in - garbage out. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Brock [mailto:gil(--nospam--at)raptsoftware.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 12:34 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: Design Checking - Here and Now and Future of Engineering

And there we have the biggest problem. 

Untrained (as engineers) people doing the FEM modelling!!! It is almost
impossible to ensure that a complex FEM model you have not generated yourself
is correct. The time required would be more than that needed to create the
model in the first place.

About 15 years ago I heard of companies using draftsmen doing modelling for
Staad runs for multi-storey buildings because they were better at it than
engineers and cheaper per hour as well. It got to the point that no engineer
ever looked at the design, because the draftsman transferred the design
results straight to drawings and then the engineer signed the drawing. The
computer had done it all so it must be right and the draftsman new how to
detail so no problem.

Unfortunately, too many people seem to think that software is replacing the
need for engineers to design. It is really just the opposite. They are
complex calculators and require even more engineering knowledge and effort
because of the amount data generated and the complexity of the results. FEM
is good but only in the hands of the most experienced engineers. Instead we
give it to the least experienced because they are better with computers. Too
bad they do not know what they are doing and will never learn. 

At 04:18 AM 16/12/2006, you wrote:


	My own provocation for the question:
	
	I raised this question, because I think that a company could emply
younger people to do drafting, modeling and BIM.  There are many young
students just out of high school that cannot afford to go to University to
study, and they are caught in limbo.  They may end up going to Army or Navy
or MacDonalds, if they don't get a decent job.  Many youngsters are wonderful
with computers, love computer games, but they can't put any of it to work,
because there are corporations that do not absorb such smart children without
the foundation to begin University. 
	
	So, I can very well imagine, that we could put these students to
learn CAD and FEM modeling, and even BIM, they would earn a wage that suits a
youngster in this position, not an engineers wage.  And then the best role
that an engineer with skills could put forth, is a variety of checks that
would ensure the overall design of the structure.  I think we could put many
people to work that need jobs, and still keep the flow of work and design for
engineers. 
	
	I live in a small country.  I have been here two years.  I have seen
it as a microcosm.  There are many people here, because of the size of the
island, that they take up employment with their families, learn the ropes,
and then design and build.  There are many people that have degrees, but
surely some of them are more qualified than others.  But it brings up the
point, that this is a way to generate work, and to generate results.  I think
overall, in the US and in different parts of the world, there truly needs to
be people taking a step back, and looking at things a little more slowly.
Life does not need to be so fast.  Many people are left behind because of it.
And there are many things that are not necessities.  We truly need to find
what is truly necessary, and then move to make decisions. 
	
	I can truly imagine people reaching down into the schools, into the
youth, stepping back to help our children grow better, instead of leaving a
vast number in daycares just 3 months after birth, to be monitored with a 5
to 1 to 10 to 1 or worse kid to adult ratio, put in front of TVs to learn.
Life needs to change.  There are ways to do it.  And we as engineers can
learn new methods to accommodate our youngsters.  We have the tools, the
intelligence, I say we make some shifts. 
	
	I enjoy the proverb "It takes a village to raise a child".  It is
profound.
	
	
	On 12/15/06, Syed A Masroor < masroor(--nospam--at)eaworld.com
<mailto:masroor(--nospam--at)eaworld.com> > wrote:
	


		From: "Jordan Truesdell, PE" <
seaint1(--nospam--at)truesdellengineering.com <mailto:seaint1(--nospam--at)truesdellengineering.com> >
		
		> BIM  for projects less than $5M is probably money flushed
down a toilet.
		
		
		I have a Merrit handbook from 1970 which explained that if
the design fee is
		
		less than a million dollars, the use of a computer will not
be viable! 
		
		
		Masroor
		
		
		
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Regards  Gil Brock
Prestressed Concrete Design Consultants Pty. Ltd. (ABN 84 003 163 586)
5 Cameron Street Beenleigh Qld 4207 Australia
Ph +61 7 3807 8022               Fax +61 7 3807 8422
email:            gil(--nospam--at)raptsoftware.com
email:            sales(--nospam--at)raptsoftware.com
email:            support(--nospam--at)raptsoftware.com
webpage:         http://www.raptsoftware.com
<http://www.raptsoftware.com/> 
Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED 
Caveats: NONE


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