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Re: Welded elbows in carbon steel pipes

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Daryl-

IMO (& 30+ years of design experience)  your response was fine......the OP's post gave me the strong impression that

"This person doesn't have a full understanding of the engineering involved in the piping portion of the project."


and that any answers
from the guys on the list to his specific question about joints  weren't going to solve his (IMO again) overall problem......lack of experience on a large piping project

Hey, I could be wrong about the OP but with experience comes the ability (& responsibility) to say...."this guy doesn't have a clue about what he appears to be attempting" from the "tone" of his question.


If Daryl's assessment is incorrect, I share the mistake as well because I got the same impression.

cheers
Bob



On 1/4/07, Daryl Richardson <h.d.richardson(--nospam--at)shaw.ca> wrote:
Javier, Jorge,
 
        I'm sorry if I offended you in my response to the subject question on the seaint list today.  No offense was intended.
 
        It seems I didn't come across very well in my reply today; but the impact of Jorge's question on me was "This person doesn't have a full understanding of the engineering involved in the piping portion of the project."  I wanted to suggest that more help than I can give on the list is required and should be obtained elsewhere.
 
        A project with "some miles of pipeline with portions buried and portions above ground" would seem to be a fairly major project and, therefore, definitely a team effort.  It would seem to me to be prudent (if not mandatory) to ensure that at least one member of the team be expert in the design of pipelines and piping systems.  That was the message I was trying to get across.
 
        If I'm out of line on the subject just tell me and I will have nothing more to say on the subject.
 
Regards,
 
H. Daryl Richardson
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: Welded elbows in carbon steel pipes

"I don't mean to belittle your skills; but the tone of your posting suggests that you may need quite a bit of help."
 
What do you mean with "the tone of your posting"? Of course he needs help, otherwise wouldn't have bothered asking. If you know the answer and are willing to share it, just do it, but please let's stop this kind of comments between colleagues of our profession.
 
Javier Encinas, PE
-----Original Message-----
From: Daryl Richardson [mailto:h.d.richardson(--nospam--at)shaw.ca]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:25 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: Welded elbows in carbon steel pipes

Jorge,
 
        I'm not really a piping expert; but I have worked on enough petrochemical projects to know that there is a lot more to piping than casual observations would reveal.  Petrochemical piping is designed to ANSI standards while water piping to different standards (AWWAA or some such standard, I believe).  You may want to find an expert in this field to help you.  I don't mean to belittle your skills; but the tone of your posting suggests that you may need quite a bit of help.
 
        As far as elbows are concerned, you always have the option of using multi segmental miter cut welded elbows, whereby you can get any angle you could possibly want; this is a simple part of the problem.
 
        If you have miles of pipeline you are going to need expansion loops to take care of thermal stresses, roadway crossings, river crossings, and, perhaps, more.  This is the more difficult part of the problem.
 
        A word of warning about piping designers and piping engineers.  These people control the development of industrial projects in much the same way that architects control the development of residential and commercial projects.  And many of them don't have any greater respect for structural engineers than architects do.
 
        This sounds like a great project.  If I were a few years younger I could be envious.  Good luck with it.
 
Regards,
 
H. Daryl Richardson
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 11:30 PM
Subject: Welded elbows in carbon steel pipes

I have a project with a carbon steel pipe running some miles, transporting water. The pipe will has buried portions and above ground portions. I am wondering how the welded elbows would be. Due the slightest vertical directions changes from the topography, standard elbows of 90, 45 and 22.5 degrees will not be enough to accommodate the pipe route geometry. A profile would be generated with the arbitrary angles for the elbows. Another options is to select a set of 'project standard elbows' and then generate a profile with this set of elbows. How is the standard procedure for this work? All the elbows are shop-fabricated or some are field-fabricated?

Jorge Jimenez, PE