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# RE: Embedded Pole (UNCLASSIFIED)

• To: <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
• Subject: RE: Embedded Pole (UNCLASSIFIED)
• From: "Himat Solanki" <hsolanki(--nospam--at)scgov.net>
• Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:32:12 -0500

```David,

I would suggest  RUS BULLETIN 1724E-205, USDA " Design Guide: Embedment
depth for Concrete and Steel Poles"

This publication has several charts as well as design examples (manual
type) including the effect of gound condition such as water table depth,
type of soil, etc.

Himat

>>> mdeardorff(--nospam--at)burkett-wong.com 01/30/07 2:08 PM >>>
I have usually seen geotechs allowing 2.5 times the caisson width for
passive resistance. So if you embed an 8" pole in sand I would guess
you can
take 2.5 x 8 in = 20 in diameter for purposes of the flagpole formulae.
But
I would check with a soils engineer first.

Mark E. Deardorff
Structural Engineer

3434 4th Ave
San Diego, CA 92103
P 619.299.5550 x348
F 619.299.9934
mdeardorff(--nospam--at)burkett-wong.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Haan, Scott M POA [mailto:Scott.M.Haan(--nospam--at)poa02.usace.army.mil]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:49 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: Embedded Pole (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> The 2006 IBC also says you can tamp in clean sand in 8" lifts
> in the annular space.  This is not saying that you can put 3
> feet of sand all the way around your column and say the
> column width is 6 feet diameter.
>
> I thought I had seen some design guide for fences that said
> you could pack gravel around the column to increase the
> effective diameter.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark E. Deardorff [mailto:mdeardorff(--nospam--at)burkett-wong.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:33 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: RE: Embedded Pole
>
> In the '97 UBC you may use either concrete OR clean sand in
> the annular space around the post. 1806.8.3.
>
>
> Mark E. Deardorff
>
> Structural Engineer
>
>
>
> 3434 4th Ave
>
> San Diego, CA 92103
>
> P 619.299.5550 x348
>
> F 619.299.9934
>
> mdeardorff(--nospam--at)burkett-wong.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> 	From: M. David Finley, P.E., P.A.
> [mailto:davidfinley(--nospam--at)bizsea.rr.com]
> 	Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:54 AM
> 	To: Seaint(--nospam--at)Seaint.Org
> 	Subject: Embedded Pole
>
>
> 	It is not uncommon for a directly embedded pole (sign
> column, traffic signal pole, utility pole, etc.) to have a
> concrete "collar" cast around it.
> This is typically done by setting the pole in the drilled
> hole and then backfilling with concrete.  The result is an
> increased width of the structure which increases the
> resistance to overturning.  Pretty standard stuff.
>
> 	But how about if tamped gravel is used rather that
> concrete?  It stands to reason that the gravel should provide
> greater capacity than just the pole alone, but certainly less
> that the concrete collar.  Does anyone know of a reference
>
> 	TIA,
>
> 	David Finley
> 	M. David Finley, P.E., P.A.
> 	2086 SW Main Boulevard - Suite 111
> 	Lake City, FL  32025
> 	386-752-6400
>
>
>
> Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>
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