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Re: ASCE 7-05 Errors

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But, I do object to people that
get "preachy" about the code development process, especially when the vast
majority have never participated, even if it is just being aware of public
comment period and reviewing proposed changes.  It is extremely easy to
sit in the "cheap seats" and point out all the flaws and problems, but
MUCH more difficult to actually get your hands dirty and DO SOMETHING
about it.  If you are SO concerned about the errors and you are SO sure
that they can be fixed easily, then why not get involved and fix the
errors...if it is so easy?
This is an incredible dialogue!  If Houton Miflin (the largest publisher of school textbooks) publishes a new Calculus text because someone has decided that the old ones are outmoded and require updating, it's up to Houghton Miflin to MAKE DARN SURE that the textbooks they put out are correct.  Which means that Houghton Miflin pays for proofreaders. Period.  And the same goes for any new code.  No code book should ever be published before it is completely and painstakingly proofread, paid for by the company that will benefit economically from the published text. Period. If volunteers want to help proofread, fine.  But nothing should ever leave the publishhing house before it is mistake free.

I don't recall any one saying that errors can be fixed easily.  In fact quite the opposite was said; exactly why more proofing and more time is required between code cycles.  If some one 'forced' you to give up your perfectly good car and made you drive a new, defective car (and forced is the key word), I am sure you'ld complain.  It's exactly the same with this code writing process!

I'm sorry but most engineers (at least the ones I know) are too busy working at making a living. Most of us do not have the time to volunteer for this code writing process, but many of us do volunteer our engineering services.  We did not ask for the change.  We are not the ones starting the code change process. So either there is more proofing, code developers are held to a higher standard, or more time is allowed between major codes.  And, as I said before, there did not seem to be an urgent need for this change.

Andrew









-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Maxwell
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Sent: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 6:28 pm
Subject: RE: ASCE 7-05 Errors

I don't disagree with the notion that there is "time" for them to be held
to higher standard, but would beg to differ that there is "money" for them
to be held to a higher standard.  Considering how many people whine about
the costs of codes right now, I don't see too many people willing to pay
more for extra efforts to try to further reduce errors.

I will also disagree that codes should not be compared to design
documents.  While I will agree that they are not completely the same, the
fact remains that an error on a design document could result in loss or
harm of human life just as easily as an error in a code.  Thus, to me,
both need to be held to similar standards with regards to errors.

Please don't get me wrong.  I certainly believe that there are things that
can be done to make the system better.  But, I do object to people that
get "preachy" about the code development process, especially when the vast
majority have never participated, even if it is just being aware of public
comment period and reviewing proposed changes.  It is extremely easy to
sit in the "cheap seats" and point out all the flaws and problems, but
MUCH more difficult to actually get your hands dirty and DO SOMETHING
about it.  If you are SO concerned about the errors and you are SO sure
that they can be fixed easily, then why not get involved and fix the
errors...if it is so easy?

And before some people start with all the excuses about how all the people
on the code committees are supported by their companies and those that
don't participate cannot afford to do because they are sole-proprietors or
their companies will not fund their effort, I will point out that I
particpate and no one but me pays for my participation.  I attend meetings
and pay my own way.  So, I know it can be done by the "common" engineer as
I am not exactly rolling in $$$.

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI


On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Mark Johnson wrote:

> I have to agree, codes shouldn't be compared to design
> documents.  They are much more important than that.  I
> also have to believe there is the time and the money
> for them to be held to a higher standard design
> documents.
>
> I once worked in a firm that implemented a 100% peer
> review policy for all documents that left the office
> after they issued a drawing for a concrete beam with
> no reinforcing in it.  I was surprised at how many
> mistakes still got through.  It's difficult not to
> produce  documents with mistakes, but it's not ok.
>
> two more cents,
> Mark Johnson
>
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