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RE: ASCE 7-05

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Bill:

The ASCE wind could have been written much simpler. Next to a hill multiply
by 1.2, too narrow multiply by 1.1, too much glass multiply by
1.156162457724, a couple of tables, a map, a crayon, a calculator and napkin
bing bang boom.

I drink the koolaid like everyone else but it doesn't mean I have to like the
taste.


Scott.

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott, William N [mailto:William.N.Scott(--nospam--at)conocophillips.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:48 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: ASCE 7-05

Given the wind damage that has occurred do to hurricanes, it seems the wind
provisions were inadequate.

So, calculate a standard wind load for your area and use it for every project
that has similar parameters. Leave the project info blank so it can be
written in.
 
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Haan, Scott M POA [mailto:Scott.M.Haan(--nospam--at)poa02.usace.army.mil]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:40 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: ASCE 7-05

This may rub academics wrong, but building codes should be written to the
lowest common denominator. This is so mistakes won't be made, not so that
idiots like me can do the work.  You shouldn't have to buy software or spend
40 hours writing a spreadsheet to calculate wind loads in order to figure out
what the code requires.  You should be able to easily open a code book and
quickly hand check your computer model output with a calculator on the back
of a napkin.  If not the code is broken.

I used to tell people to quit whining about code changes.  I haven't been in
the profession that long though and have seen 3 different seismic loading
codes and two wind loading codes.  I used to say no big deal to ASCE7 wind
but if history truly repeats itself then in the near future the wind code
will be completely changed again. 

The UBC wind loads were much easier to apply.  The designs were not less safe
otherwise everyone would be retrofitting buildings designed with UBC wind
loads. 





-----Original Message-----
From: Brian K. Smith [mailto:smithegr(--nospam--at)bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 7:46 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: ASCE 7-05

Charles,

	When was the last time a building failed in Texas, Mississippi, or
Louisiana due to an earthquake?  I don't remember reading about that event
either but the IBC says we have to consider it.  Not only that but in many
cases I am required to detail the building to meet the seismic requirements.

	I have been using the wind load provisions of the IBC and ASCE 7 for
7 or 8 years.  It's not that big of a deal.

Bks







-----Original Message-----
From: Charles R. Ashley Jr. [mailto:charles(--nospam--at)advanceeng.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 10:15 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: ASCE 7-05

As engineers we tend to learn by failures.  After all, it was the 1994
Northridge EQ that spurred major revisions to the seismic provisions in the
1997.

So I have to ask....when is the last time a Type V building failed due to
wind in California?  Anyone wake up in the morning and find a roof that
doesn't below to you sitting in your front yard?

I am trying to figure out what tragic wind event triggered these ridiculous
revisions!  I am sure there must have been a bus load of innocent children
involved, I just can't seem to find it.



-----Original Message-----
From: smaxwell(--nospam--at)umich.edu [mailto:smaxwell(--nospam--at)umich.edu]
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:35 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: ASCE 7-05

While I do believe that there are a lot of engineers out there who are overly
harsh on the various code/standard committees (it is rather easy to
"backseat" drive or complain about stuff when you are not familiar with the
process or the work that goes on and the difficulty in getting sometimes
50+
people to agree enough on something to produce a provision), I do believe
that ASCE 7 has gotten a little out of hand with the wind provisions.
Having
messed with the wind loads for signs recently, I can say that it is WAY to
involved a process to get wind loads for a freakin' sign (it took me multiple
hours to JUST get the wind pressure for the sign).

Regards,

Scott
Adrian, MI

Quoting "Garner, Robert" <rgarner(--nospam--at)moffattnichol.com>:

>
> ASCE has very successfully made wind design into rocket science.  Way
to
> go ASCE!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. [mailto:ghodgson(--nospam--at)bellnet.ca]
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 4:59 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Re: ASCE 7-05
>
> I will take back part of what I said.  The quality of engineering 
> drawings, particularly structural drawings from the US, are very good.
> However when you read computer instructions, technical manuals, and 
> codes where they have been prepared by engineering organizations, they 
> usually leave something to be desired.  The trouble is that they know 
> all about  their subject but don't realize outsiders are starting from 
> scratch; they just assume everyone will know what they mean..  An 
> example is 1995 ASCE-I bought their Minimum Design Loads for Buildings
> -- and after reading the seismic requirements three times I was
totally
> lost and thought the problem was me.  So I called a friend at a large 
> engineering company who was assistant head of the industrial
department
> and he said the ASCE seismic parts seem to go in circles.  We agreed
to
> ignore it and use the UBC, I believe.  I wrote a letter of complaint
to
> ASCE and heard nothing back.  If I am not mistaken, there have been a 
> lot of complaints recently about the ASCE wind load requirements.
>
> Christopher Wright wrote:
>>
>> On Oct 20, 2007, at 8:21 AM, Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. wrote:
>>
>>> Actually makes sense, as engineers are not known for their 
>>> communication ability Gary
>> Not the good ones. Engineering is discipline of communications--we 
>> don't (routinely) make things; we tell people who do how to makes 
>> things properly. That's what drawings and reports are all 
>> about--communicating instructions unambiguously to artisans (for lack 
>> of a better word) can give materials a specific usefulness. We don't 
>> do science or math; we use science and math to make sure the 
>> instructions we communicate are soundly based in physical principles.
>>
>> My own experience is that academics who teach engineering tend to
lose
>
>> sight of the need for communications and organization--maybe out of 
>> desire for greater rigor in presentation or just a tendency to
impress
>
>> the onlooker with technicalities. I know that's happened with the 
>> Pressure Vessel Codes. With the ASME Codes, I think the problem is 
>> that industry isn't supporting Code writng efforts like they once
did,
>
>> and academia has necessarily moved in. I've always suspected (without 
>> an ounce of actual proof) that it's what happened when LRFD was 
>> introduced.
>>
>>
>> Christopher Wright P.E. |"They couldn't hit an elephant at
>> chrisw(--nospam--at)skypoint.com   | this distance" (last words of Gen.
>> .......................................| John Sedgwick, Spotsylvania
>> 1864)
>> http://www.skypoint.com/~chrisw/
>>
>>
>>
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