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AW: question my authority???!

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That`s what I mean.

Regards 

Al
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Gary L. Hodgson and Assoc. [mailto:ghodgson(--nospam--at)bellnet.ca] 
Gesendet: Montag, 5. November 2007 13:44
An: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Betreff: Re: question my authority???!

This reminds of the time a customer came into my office yelling that I 
had cost him money as the footings were way over in size. I let him vent 
and then asked him how he knew the footings were over.  At first he 
wouldn't say but then he said the concrete ready-mix driver had told 
him.  Of course, everyone knows all these drivers have to have a degree 
in engineering.
Gary

Andrew Kester, PE wrote:
> Scott actually brings up a good topic, and all good jokes aside, I 
> think he needs to address this to the owner or client expeditiously 
> before the owner thinks he is an overdesigner. Many owners/developers 
> only care about the bottom line, and if they get a permit and C.O. 
> they assume all is well. Anything over that is just 
> overly-conservative engineering to them, and that can cost you 
> business. I am NOT always sure of the best way to handle these things, 
> but trying to speak directly with your architect or owner and explain 
> that you perform your analysis and calculations to the latest code 
> standards, and that you would gladly review an alternative design and 
> calculations by another engineer.
>  
> If this is during the design stage or prior to groundbreaking, you can 
> say "Well, let me review our numbers and drawings to make sure that 
> there was not a miscalculation or drafting error", and do just that. 
> We all make mistakes, sometimes it happens in the drafting stage, or 
> you fill out your footing schedule wrong or put the wrong footing mark 
> on the plans. Even if you are 100% sure and you simply look at your 
> drawings and say to yourself, "Man, I am so right" and call the 
> architect back and say you double checked but you believe your design 
> is to code, then you did your job and you will look better.
>  
> I would like to hear from our seasoned vets on this issue because as a 
> young small firm owner I need to have some options ready to save face 
> with owners and clients.
>  
> We have had this happen usually from a contractor who says one of the 
> following, or a combination of them, and many times not to us but to 
> the owner or architect:
> -We have never done it this way and I have been doing this for XXXX years
> -Engineer B down the street does it this way and he says it is fine
> -This is a complete waste and overdesign and is costing the owner lots 
> of money (which if I could save I would not return the money but 
> pocket it)
>  
> We had a single story retail building with a large covered canopy over 
> near the coast, and it was CMU with some CIP concrete arched beams. 
> Some contractor sub, probably slow from work due to the slow down in 
> residential/condo work, promised he could do the walls ALL in CIP 
> concrete rather than CMU cheaper than CMU (seems crazy to me, but 
> maybe he was really slow or had lots of forms and good subs). We get 
> an Ad Serv to redesign the walls, and the contractor flips out when he 
> gets our drawings as "we put way too much rebar in the walls and he 
> always does them with X amount and the engineer down the street does 
> it this way."
>  
> Now the walls were single story and the design was not governed by 
> strength but by ACI vertical and horizontal min reinforcement. We 
> copied that section of the ACI along with some simple hand calcs 
> showing why we could not space the bars and use the size he wanted to 
> use, and the owner saw this as well. After a pow-wow they dropped the 
> guy and went back to CMU. I am sure he made a promise he could not 
> deliver, and I do believe that another engineer does it that way 
> incorrectly (like 24" o.c. and #3 bars). Most of our plans reviewers 
> will pass anything with a PE seal on it....
>  
>  On a side note, in this instance, I have to think that the ACI max 
> spacing seems a bit too strict for a single story, lightly loaded 
> wall, when you can reinforce 8" CMU with #5 @ 48" o.c. , while I 
> believe off the top of my head we were limited to 18" o.c. for 
> concrete. I am sure it can be explained but it is odd that weaker CMU 
> requires much less reinforcement in the vertical direction....
>  
>  
>  
> Andrew Kester, PE
> Principal/Project Manager
> ADK Structural Engineering, PLLC
> 1510 E Colonial Ave., Suite 301
> Orlando, FL 32803
>

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