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Re: Shrinkage of flowable fill against a stone wall

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That is good advice, but that is not what the question is about.  Water issues were addressed more than 50+ years ago with grading and pavement around the structure.  Our goal now is to effectively bury the wall with flowable fill to create a level surface for installation of a new slab with radiant heat.  The concrete fill will secure and encapsulate the wall for the long term.  I suspect that flowable fill might have some substantial shrinkage given the mass and area.  That's where my concern lies.
 
For what its worth, a restoration mason has consulted and is on board with the concepts.  He does not have an opinion about flow fill shrinkage effects, if there are any.
 
Jim


----- Original Message ----
From: "dfisher(--nospam--at)fpse.com" <dfisher(--nospam--at)fpse.com>
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2008 6:49:01 PM
Subject: RE: Shrinkage of flowable fill against a stone wall

Excellent advice, Nels.

dlf


> Jim,
>
>
>
> What's causing the deterioration?  Perhaps getting water on the site under
> control and then pointing the masonry will solve the problem.  If the
> cause
> of the deterioration is not controlled, you may not be certain that you've
> solved the problem with the fill while access blocked by the fill will
> hamper an attempt to try something else.
>
>
>
> The deterioration on stone masonry mortar joints is conventionally
> repaired
> by pointing.  The best reference for pointing is PRESERVATIONS BRIEFS:2
> "Repointing Mortar Joints in Historic Masonry Buildings" by Robert C Mack
> and John P. Speweik, available from
> http://www.nps.gov/hps/tps/briefs/brief02.htm .  You may be able to find a
> local mason who is familiar with the pointing process.  Typically, old
> masonry building need to be repointed every 40 or 50 years.
>
>
>
> Water is the principal cause of deterioration of stone masonry.  Look for
> poor rain water control, site slopes that deliver water to the building
> instead of taking it away, irrigated planters next to the building,
> leaking
> plumbing - take steps to keep water away from the stone work and, with
> reasonable attentive maintenance, the stone masonry should last a long
> time.
> The Romans understood moisture control and some of their stone buildings
> still stand.
>
>
>
> Nels Roselund, SE
>
>
>
>  _____
>
> From: Jim Wilson [mailto:wilsonengineers(--nospam--at)yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 2:11 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Shrinkage of flowable fill against a stone wall
>
>
>
> I am looking to fill a crawl space between stone foundation walls with
> flowable fill.  But I'm concerned about potential shrinkage of the
> flowable
> fill and pulling in on deteriorating stone walls.  One of the goals is to
> secure the walls at the inside and protect them from further deerioration.
>
>
>
> Options we have considered at the stone are:
>
> 1. place an 8" concrete wall/curb on the inside of the stone to protect it
> and bind the cobbles together. Then fill the area between with flow fill.
>
> 2. drape a plastic sheet on the stone wall to prevent bonding.  This would
> also prevent the fill from filling all of the gaps in the stone.  Not
> ideal.
> The
>
> 3. Fill holes in the stone with conrete patch and then fill with flow
> fill.
>
> 4. Just fill as is and not worry about the flow fill affecting the wall.
>
>
>
> The fill will be about 40'x80', 12"-18" deep.  The foundations support
> triple wythe brick walls about 24' tall supporting the roof of a church.
> The outsides of the walls are several feet below ground.
>
>
>
> Am I overreacting about consequences?  Or is there a potential for damage
> at
> the interface between old and new? The 8" concrete curb would be a plus,
> especially if it is reinforced.  But is the extra cost necessary?
>
>
>
> I appreciate any insite into flow fill curing behavior and opinions on our
> detail options.
>
>
>
> Jim Wilson, PE
>
> Stroudsburg, PA
>
>



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