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- To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
- Subject: RE: ASCE 3
- From: Benjamin Maxwell <enginerd666(--nospam--at)yahoo.com>
- Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:35:43 -0800 (PST)
"Ehrlich, Gary" <gehrlich(--nospam--at)nahb.com> wrote:
Per Section 2209.1, the deck itself should comply with the AISI North American Specification for the Design of Cold-Formed Structural Steel Members (2001 edition w/2004 supplement referenced in the IBC). I see the NASPEC is referenced in the ER. So the actual deck itself is covered by the IBC; it would appear to be just the design procedure for the composite slab and composite deck that?s referencing an outdated spec. And even there, I?d say you?re covered by the general language in Section 1604.4 for engineering analysis; anything that would qualify as a ?rational analysis? (which I presume CCD-2 would) should thus be acceptable.
(I?ll grant that I haven?t designed in high-wind or high-seismic areas; I?m used to the NE where code officials don?t seem to look at much else than the design criteria in the general notes and the statement of special inspections. YMMV in CA or other high-hazard areas.)
Interestingly, the SDI has a proposal in for the looming ICC hearings that adds their standards for composite, non-composite and roof deck (C1.0-06, NC1.0-06, and RD1.0-06) and expands 2209.2 to cover all steel decks. So the 2009 IBC ought to have the problem fixed.
Regards,GaryGary J. Ehrlich, PE
Program Manager, Structural Codes & Standards
National Association of Home Builders (NAHB)
1201 15th Street, NW, Washington, DC 20005
ph: 202-266-8545 or 800-368-5242 x8545
From: Benjamin Maxwell [mailto:enginerd666(--nospam--at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 7:55 PM
Subject: ASCE 3
List Engineers,2006 IBC, 2007 CBC, etc. refer to ASCE 3 for cold-formed metal deck - see IBC 2209.2 (CBC is the same).So, first, this ASCE 3 document was published in '93 or so and has not been updated since. It's also hard to find, and I literally did a nice jig when I found it in one of our outdated and neglected library zones amidst spider webs and dust.Once I had this document in hand, I went to Verco to look for the references to ASCE 3. I couldn't find any in my Verco catalog and technical manual. Then I went to the Verco ICC report. Here I found only a reference to ICC AC 43 for steel floor and roof decks.In the AC 43 document ICC allows design in accordance with EITHER ASCE 3 OR the Steel Deck Institute's Composite Deck Design Handbook (CCD2 - 1997). See Sections 3.4.1 and 3.4.2.From what I have gathered referring to the Steel Deck Institute web site and other information we have in our office, the CCD2 reflects more current physical testing that included the positive contributory effects of composite steel framing as opposed to the older study documented in ASCE 3 that considered non-composite steel framing.Back to my point. My question is that this seems open up a loop hole in the code that could allow steel deck construction that meets ICC standards, but does not technically meet IBC standards, correct? In other words to gain ICC approval my deck can meet CCD2 but ignore ASCE 3 requirements. This seems to be outside the intent of the current IBC requirements.I have an e-mail in to the Steel Deck Institute that I sent Monday, but I can't wait any longer. I need answers!!!!Any help or insight would be appreciated.Thanks,Ben Maxwell
Benjamin H. Maxwell, S.E.
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