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RE: Weak Rivets of Titanic, Weak Steel Bearing Walls of WTC, Weak Levees of New Orleans- Weak Gussets of I-35W Bridge= 6000 deaths

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Perhaps if the ship owner didn't run the Titanic so fast, they may have been
able to avoid the iceberg.  I am not sure how the rivets could have
prevented a gash.

Perhaps if terrorists didn't run airplanes full of jet fuel into a building

Perhaps if terrorists didn't put a truck full fertilizer and diesel fuel in
front of the Murrah building

Perhaps if people didn't live 4 feet below sea level, got on 300 school
buses left in the flood, or weren't dependant on the government for
everything

We can put a man on the moon, but we can't put our fire trucks on the sun to
cool it a little bit to stop global warming.  We can change the climate by
exhaling carbon dioxide, but we can't change the course of a tornado.

I always hear:  "you engineers always overdesign everything!"  Engineers
don't make the decisions to purposely undersize components.  The people with
the money decide it, or there are engineering errors or construction
mistakes.  I've never met an engineer with a callous attitude as this guy
accuses us of.  Everyone I know is too scared to underdesign, lest they
become a news item.  And if this scientist believes humans are causing
global warming and engineers were the cause of all these catastrophes
because of lack of caring, he cannot be much of a scientist.  He apparently
limits his research to the cover of the Times.



Glenn C. Otto, P.E.
Virginia Beach, VA


-----Original Message-----
From: Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl [mailto:astaneh(--nospam--at)ce.berkeley.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:41 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Weak Rivets of Titanic, Weak Steel Bearing Walls of WTC, Weak
Levees of New Orleans- Weak Gussets of I-35W Bridge= 6000 deaths

To: Structural Engineers Association International Members
From: Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl
Date: April 15, 2008
Subject: Weak Rivets of  Titanic, Weak Steel Bearing Walls of WTC, Weak
Levees of New Orleans- Weak Gussets of I-35W Bridge= 6000 deaths

Dear SEAINT friends:

Yesterday's New York Times reported that the original documents from the
time of construction of the Titanic shows that the engineers used
sub-standard iron rivets in the construction since sound steel rivets
were hard to get
(http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/science/15titanic.html?_r=1&ref=todayspap
er&oref=slogin)
Then I  found the following e-mail in my inbox from a dear friend who is
a scientist and faculty member in Division of Epidemiology of a
prestigious university in Midwest:
_________________
Mike wwxxyy wrote (referring to NY Times story on Titanic Rivets being
weak):
> Hassan,
> Once again, builders were cutting corners for short-term gain at the
> expense of safety.  This kind of short-sightedness is one of the great
> problems of humanity and I don't see an easy solution.  Failure to act
> on the threat of global warming is another example of this kind of
> problem. A key aspect to this is that the people who suffer most when
> the short-sighted plan unravels are not the people who did the
> planning.  I don't think the shipbuilders were on the Titanic when it
> sank, nor were the architects in the WTC when it collapsed, and
> if/when global warming becomes massively destructive, we'll all be
> gone by then.  We at least need to stop pretending that we can trust
> builders and designers and we should have a second competing team
> critique their work.  That could help, but then the politicians who
> choose the builder also want to save money and are thereby doubly
> motivated to argue against paying for such a critique.  --Mike
-----------------------------
In my working on several very public projects, starting with the San
Francisco Oakland Bay Bridge in 1989 on to my present I-35W and Mac
Arthur projects, I have heard over and over the frustration and horror
of many non-engineers upon coming across the lack of respect for human
life and public safety on the part of some engineers and the presence of
what I have termed as "moral corruption" on the part of again some
engineers who protect the faulty performance of their fellow engineers
at the expense of public safety. I may have said this before, but, since
it is so dear to me I will repeat again.  A dear friend of mine in the
business school here with whom I work at the Center for Catastrophic
Risk Management at UC Berkeley, after the the Katrina disaster told me
that "you engineers think that the planet earth is un-inhabited!" .
Initially I kind of reacted trying to defend ourselves, but, then after
looking back to my exposure to and involvement in investigating
disasters for about 40 years now, and specially resent performance of
engineers in the case of design of new East Spans of the Bay Bridge by
Caltrans and private sector consultants and contractors, Investigation
of the collapse of the Murrah Building, WTC towers and New Orleans
Levees by the ASCE Building Performance Assessment Teams, the collapse
and reconstruction of the Mac Arthur Maze by Caltarns and private sector
contractors and consultants
(http://www.alumni.berkeley.edu/California/web/20071116_Astaneh.pdf)
and now the case of I-35W tragic collapse and its investigation by NTSB
and private sector consultants, I have concluded that she is absolutely
right and engineers, at least most, think that planet earth is
un-inhabited!.  If you do not agree with me let us see how many times
when designing a structure, a member  or a connection, it has crossed
your mind what happens if this structural element that I am designing
fails and how many people will get killed or injured?    You may have
taught of losing your job, losing your license, losing your reputation,
but very few of us think of consequences of our  design in term of
immediate and direct loss of lives of loved ones of someone else.

You know,  the downward arrow that you put on that beam and write next
to it say "LL=45 kips" actually means the weight of 300 human beings
right there and if that beam fails, hundreds can get killed or injured.
Don't you think it is time for us , specially in structural engineering,
to accept that not only the planet earth is inhabited but the
inhabitants of this planet live and work in our structures trusting that
our foremost priority is their safety. Please do not tell me that of
course in structural engineering we put safety first, may be most of us
do, but, some do not and those of us who do have a responsibility and
duty to make sure those few irresponsible individuals are filtered out
of these great professions of civil engineering and structural
engineering. The starting point can be this case of the ASCE's
investigations of the Katrina catastrophe and the WTC towers collapse
(http://civilengineeringcentral.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/asce-scanal/)

It is up to  all of us to save the reputation of  our profession and
clean up our professional organizations of "morally corrupt" officials
and members so that the public can trust us again as the dedicated civil
engineering and structural engineering professionals who are truly
dedicated to public safety and not to protecting their fellow engineers
and friends at the expense of public safety.

Please remember the saying that:  you can fool some people forever and
you can fool everyone for sometime but you cannot fool everyone forever!
Sincerely,
Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E.
Professor and Consultant on
Structural Engineering, Earthquake Engineering and
Protection of Buildings and Bridges against Blast and Impact.

================================

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