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RE: Full Pen Weld at Channel

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I will look into the AWS forum.



From: Garner, Robert [mailto:rgarner(--nospam--at)]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:52 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: RE: Full Pen Weld at Channel


Very well said, Harold, thank you!


The AWS also has a forum of welders that can also give you great insight.


Bob Garner, S.E.

From: Harold Sprague [mailto:spraguehope(--nospam--at)]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:56 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: RE: Full Pen Weld at Channel


This is a common issue.  This is also known as a broke back stair stringer.  Be careful so that you get what you intend.  If you truly need a full pen weld, then specify what you need.  If you get a true full pen weld, you will then have run off tabs and you will have a weld access hole through the web.  It will not be pretty.
Now the architect will hate that hole and point out that no other broke back stringer in existance will have a weld access hole, and he will be correct. 
You as the engineer have a dillema.  Swimming upstream in the world of convention or engineering something that will satisfy most everyone. 
I have had this conversation with a lot of welding and fabricating gurus and resoved to the following:
Show a PJP weld symbol with E in the spot indicating the effective weld thickness.  In the tail of the weld symbol indicate:

Show the same weld symbol for the web weld.  Calculate if this is sufficient for the weld you need. 

You can have it ground flush if required. 
The above weld will have a prepared beveled surface.  It will be close to a CJP, but not quite.  It will look like all of the other welds out there on stair stringers, but you will have some idea of what you have.  The vast majority of these welds existing in the field are just butt welds that are not prequalified and you have no idea of the thickness of the effective weld. 
Go to any project where there is a broke back stringer and you will not find a weld access hole even if the weld was specified as a CJP.  It makes you wonder what weld was provided.  At least with the notes that I now use, I am getting a definable weld and it is inspected. 

Harold Sprague

From: jrgrill(--nospam--at)
To: seaint(--nospam--at)
Subject: Full Pen Weld at Channel
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:02:21 -0700

For you steel fabricating welding gurus  out there, I am looking a stair stringer that is cantilevered and requires a full pen weld at the joint from the sloped portion of the stringer to the horizontal landing.  I think the B-U2 groove weld would be the way to go as there is no requirement for weld tabs.  It appears that it can be used at the flanges with the angle and the base metal thickness is unlimited.


Is this what is customarily called for on a full pen weld on a stair stringer or something else?  If this is acceptable, can the near side and far side be ground  flush?





Joseph R. Grill, PE



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