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Re: The Myth of Inadequate Structural Engineering Compensation

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We have been instructed to refrain from posting on issues of politics, race, and religion for obvious reasons. Bill is unable to comply. There are plenty of sites where you guys can take this stuff, it does not belong here. Since Bill cannot follow these simple rules, his posting privileges should be removed. The fact that you may be politically sympathetic to his rants does not excuse his (or your)behavior. In case that isn't clear enough, here's a definition: In Internet slang <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang>, a *troll* is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum>, chat room <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chat_room> or blog <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blog>, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response^[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#cite_note-PCMAG_def-0> or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^[2] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#cite_note-IUKB_def-1>
Chuck Utzman, P.E.

Michel Blangy wrote:
A quick search of the archives and one can find postings of Mr. Utzman's
carrying on about CO2 levels which CMIIAW has no place here.

There must be some criteria to ban one from the list beyond one man's gripe.
Start a petition whiners...typical leftist tyranical behavior. You know what
the rest of us need, right?

Please Dennis do nothing to prevent Mr. Polhemus from contributing here.

Michel Blangy

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Utzman [mailto:chuckutzman(--nospam--at)gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:28 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: The Myth of Inadequate Structural Engineering Compensation


Dennis
On any one of the numerous on-line groups I have frequented over the
years, Bill would have long since been banned for his trollish posting.
Why is this list so poorly administered? I can only recall one person
being banned for bad behavior. A woman who like to post an occasional
innocuous joke!  Isn't there some way to put an end to Bill's disruption
of an invaluable site?
Chuck Utzman, P.E.

Dennis Wish wrote:
Bill,
You're off your meds again! Us "Bottom feeders" design nearly 90% of
all of the buildings in this country that include single and
multi-family residential, low-rise commercial and light-industrial as
well as foundations, retaining walls and seismic and wind retrofits.
The large firms who lay off send their engineers to become "bottom
feeders" as you well know. When you lost your job in public works, you
entered the sole-proprietorship of "bottom feeders" and started
designing multi-story wood frame buildings without knowing what you
were doing. Still, you took the public's safety at heart and continued
to learn as you designed asking questions of those of us on the list
(including questions directed at me privately and one or two phone
calls around the time you were also in the process of moving ). My
point is that you endangered the public by not completing an adequate
apprenticeship under the supervision of a licensed engineer with
adequate experience in light framed wood structures designed in high
wind areas.

You need to get off your high horse and stay out of a discussion that
you are not qualified to be part of. You may have been laid off your
last job and you may have another one soon, but the cycle will
continue and when you average your earnings and your income  to debt
ratio you will probably find yourself in a position of having earned
far less than the average "bottom feeder" out their.

The small bit of truth that I gleamed for your redemption is that some
of us do run a sole-proprietorship because we like it. It took me a
long time to find a field that I felt challenged but to be frank, I
never considered the quality of my work akin to what might be done by
a "bottom feeder" - this is why we have Conventional Prescriptive
Construction which may be bottom of the barrel but certainly not
"bottom feeders" since engineers are not required for this type of work.

Finally, I can't be a "bottom feeder" - I'm Jewish and bottom feeders
are not Kosher!

Dennis S Wish, PE
A really Professional California Engineer who may be close to be
bottom of the barrel but certainly is not a "bottom feeder"

PS: What country is Texas in again? I heard Leno ask a Texas gal how
many stars were on the American flag and she answered " I can't count
them while the flag is moving."

Bill Polhemus wrote:
Many of the people here on SEAINT are small operators, some of them
sole proprietors. They are sort of (again, meaning no disrespect) the
"bottom feeders" of our profession, taking work that large firms such
as yours wouldn't even dream of doing. They do it for the enjoyment
and they do it because they choose to do it. But they don't
necessarily do it because they are privileged to charge whatever they
want to charge. It is understandable, though, that sometimes they
would get a bit frustrated. I'm not working for myself any longer for
the simple reason that I just couldn't make enough money working in
that environment to allow me to raise the "second family" that was
suddenly thrust upon me.

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