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RE: The Myth of Inadequate Structural Engineering Compensation

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Noted.

I agree, lets get back to structural engineering.

I'll refrain from making further off-topic posts.


Cheers,


David L. Fisher SE PE
Senior Principal

Fisher and Partners
372 West Ontario 
Suite 301
Chicago 60654

312.622.0409 (m)
312.573.1701
312.573.1726 (f)

www.fpse.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Utzman [mailto:chuckutzman(--nospam--at)gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:54 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: The Myth of Inadequate Structural Engineering Compensation


We have been instructed to refrain from posting on issues of politics, 
race, and religion for obvious reasons. Bill is unable to comply.  There 
are plenty of sites where you guys can take this stuff, it does not 
belong here.  Since Bill cannot follow these simple rules, his posting 
privileges should be removed. The fact that you may be politically 
sympathetic to his rants does not excuse his (or your)behavior.  In case 
that isn't clear enough, here's a definition:
In Internet slang <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang>, a 
*troll* is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or 
off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion 
forum <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum>, chat room 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chat_room> or blog 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blog>, with the primary intent of 
provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response^[1] 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#cite_note-PCMAG_def-0> 
or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^[2] 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#cite_note-IUKB_def-1>
Chuck Utzman, P.E.

Michel Blangy wrote:
> A quick search of the archives and one can find postings of Mr. Utzman's
> carrying on about CO2 levels which CMIIAW has no place here.
>
> There must be some criteria to ban one from the list beyond one man's
gripe.
> Start a petition whiners...typical leftist tyranical behavior. You know
what
> the rest of us need, right?
>
> Please Dennis do nothing to prevent Mr. Polhemus from contributing here.
>
> Michel Blangy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuck Utzman [mailto:chuckutzman(--nospam--at)gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: Re: The Myth of Inadequate Structural Engineering Compensation
>
>
> Dennis
> On any one of the numerous on-line groups I have frequented over the
> years, Bill would have long since been banned for his trollish posting.
> Why is this list so poorly administered? I can only recall one person
> being banned for bad behavior. A woman who like to post an occasional
> innocuous joke!  Isn't there some way to put an end to Bill's disruption
> of an invaluable site?
> Chuck Utzman, P.E.
>
> Dennis Wish wrote:
>   
>> Bill,
>> You're off your meds again! Us "Bottom feeders" design nearly 90% of
>> all of the buildings in this country that include single and
>> multi-family residential, low-rise commercial and light-industrial as
>> well as foundations, retaining walls and seismic and wind retrofits.
>> The large firms who lay off send their engineers to become "bottom
>> feeders" as you well know. When you lost your job in public works, you
>> entered the sole-proprietorship of "bottom feeders" and started
>> designing multi-story wood frame buildings without knowing what you
>> were doing. Still, you took the public's safety at heart and continued
>> to learn as you designed asking questions of those of us on the list
>> (including questions directed at me privately and one or two phone
>> calls around the time you were also in the process of moving ). My
>> point is that you endangered the public by not completing an adequate
>> apprenticeship under the supervision of a licensed engineer with
>> adequate experience in light framed wood structures designed in high
>> wind areas.
>>
>> You need to get off your high horse and stay out of a discussion that
>> you are not qualified to be part of. You may have been laid off your
>> last job and you may have another one soon, but the cycle will
>> continue and when you average your earnings and your income  to debt
>> ratio you will probably find yourself in a position of having earned
>> far less than the average "bottom feeder" out their.
>>
>> The small bit of truth that I gleamed for your redemption is that some
>> of us do run a sole-proprietorship because we like it. It took me a
>> long time to find a field that I felt challenged but to be frank, I
>> never considered the quality of my work akin to what might be done by
>> a "bottom feeder" - this is why we have Conventional Prescriptive
>> Construction which may be bottom of the barrel but certainly not
>> "bottom feeders" since engineers are not required for this type of work.
>>
>> Finally, I can't be a "bottom feeder" - I'm Jewish and bottom feeders
>> are not Kosher!
>>
>> Dennis S Wish, PE
>> A really Professional California Engineer who may be close to be
>> bottom of the barrel but certainly is not a "bottom feeder"
>>
>> PS: What country is Texas in again? I heard Leno ask a Texas gal how
>> many stars were on the American flag and she answered " I can't count
>> them while the flag is moving."
>>
>> Bill Polhemus wrote:
>>     
>>> Many of the people here on SEAINT are small operators, some of them
>>> sole proprietors. They are sort of (again, meaning no disrespect) the
>>> "bottom feeders" of our profession, taking work that large firms such
>>> as yours wouldn't even dream of doing. They do it for the enjoyment
>>> and they do it because they choose to do it. But they don't
>>> necessarily do it because they are privileged to charge whatever they
>>> want to charge. It is understandable, though, that sometimes they
>>> would get a bit frustrated. I'm not working for myself any longer for
>>> the simple reason that I just couldn't make enough money working in
>>> that environment to allow me to raise the "second family" that was
>>> suddenly thrust upon me.
>>>
>>>       
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