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RE: License (Business)

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Why is everyone down on the opera house all of a sudden?
I mean, I can understand cost far exceeds its direct function.  
But it's a world known structure that certainly attracts more tourist tax dollars than something lesser would have...




-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Brock [mailto:gil(--nospam--at)raptsoftware.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:07 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: License (Business)

Conrad,

Dull structural engineers should not be involved in complex 
structures, so whoever is selecting the consulting engineer should 
not select a dull one if he wants a complex structure. If the idiot 
paying the money selects a dull engineer to design a complex 
structure, what can he expect to get!

I disagree with a lot of what you are saying. Yes, there are 
engineers who are only up to square boxes. There are probably some 
who should not design anything that is suspended also, because they 
hurt when they fall down. Hopefully most of them know their 
limitations and do not try to take on tasks beyond their abilities.

But most times, it is the client who causes the structure to be a big 
box because they will not pay for anything else, in terms of 
construction costs, construction time and consultants fees. And often 
it is a very cheap big box because they use substandard materials 
that start to look run-down after only a few years, especially with 
cladding. I know a lot of engineers who are capable of designing any 
structure they are asked for, but I do not know of many clients who 
are willing to pay for it, except in the Middle East (and who knows 
what money is being used to pay for it there). You cannot expect to 
get the Sydney Opera House for a structural fee .5% of construction 
cost and have it designed in 3 weeks and built by the end of the year 
for $300 per/m2.

I agree that the Sydney Opera House is overly complex, overly 
expensive and probably a waste of money, but that is what the 
Architect came up with and the client was willing to pay (too bad it 
was our tax dollars). They tried to get it simplified during the 
design stages but did not succeed.


At 05:23 PM 11/08/2009, you wrote:
>Gil,
>
>The architect may operate as part of a team, but the architect is typically
>the team leader and historically the team leader. They may not make the
>engineering decisions, but their decisions influence the structure.
>
>Thus architects determine whether get the Sydney Opera House, or the
>Adelaide Festival theatre, or the Adelaide Entertainment centre. If a dull
>structural engineer involved then the Sydney Opera House would have been
>simplified to being like the Adelaide Entertainment centre: a big box. And
>architects do seem to have a hard time finding structural engineers who will
>go beyond the big box. If sticking with the box, and to historical
>conventions, and the tried and tested, then what need of the engineer?
>
>The lesser architect will be bullied by the structural engineer into
>accepting the dull box, the great architect will not budge and will find a
>better structural engineer (real).
>
>Since architects are not all alike and structural engineers are not all
>alike, it makes sense that sometimes they need to be paired up and sometimes
>they have no need of each other. Some times neither is required and have
>owner-designer-builders doing it all for themselves.
>
>There is no one single project organisation structure, that suits all
>projects, all the time, and in all places. The resources available to a
>project have to be managed properly: calling in the higher level skills when
>needed.
>
>
>
>Regards
>Conrad Harrison
>B.Tech (mfg & mech), MIIE, gradTIEAust
>mailto:sch.tectonic(--nospam--at)bigpond.com
>Adelaide
>South Australia
>
>
>
>
>
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Regards  Gil Brock
Prestressed Concrete Design Consultants Pty. Ltd. (ABN 84 003 163 586)
5 Cameron Street Beenleigh Qld 4207 Australia
Ph +61 7 3807 8022              Fax +61 7 3807 8422
email:          gil(--nospam--at)raptsoftware.com
email:          sales(--nospam--at)raptsoftware.com
email:          support(--nospam--at)raptsoftware.com
webpage:        http://www.raptsoftware.com


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