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RE: Concrete Reinf Diagram

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I worked for Figg Bridge Engineers for a while, a company that
specializes in segmental bridge design.  Some of the segments at bridge
piers had unbelievable amounts of rebar in them, by the time you
reinforced the cantilever "wings" of the segment, the webs for the high
shears, diaphragms, massive anchorage zones for lots of PT tendons,
rebar into the column, etc.  On some projects, just to help the
contractor visualize how everything was supposed to fit in there, they
would produce 3D models of the segment with every piece of rebar drawn
to scale and located exactly where it was supposed to go, with proper
bend radii, cover, etc.  They would then include in the drawings several
full-color isometric views, with each bar type uniquely colored, so you
could see how it fit into the puzzle.  The drawings were real works of
art, and the color isometrics, though they didn't present any
information that wasn't elsewhere in the drawings, at least gave the
contractor something to look at and say, "Oh, so THAT'S how that's
supposed to go in there."  (And I'm sure they're probably still on
display at some detailer's desk.)  It was appropriate for the
application, but would definitely be WAY overkill for your typical
column-beam detail.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy White [mailto:admin(--nospam--at)structuralae.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 12:25 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: Concrete Reinf Diagram

Harold,

Thanks for the advice.

I think it would be wise also to terminate 50% of the bottom bars  
(maybe hook them upward) before they enter the column to limit  
clutter, but the top bars are going to be a nightmare.  I think I will  
require 2 layers for the top bars even though the clear spacing is  
acceptable within the beam.  I am modeling the structure in Revit so I  
can create the joint to scale and see exactly how everything will fit  
together.  I'll attach a pdf of the isometric when I'm done if anyone  
is interested in seeing it.

Thanks again,
Jeremy


Quoting Harold Sprague <spraguehope(--nospam--at)hotmail.com>:

>
> A plan detail is not typical, but if it will add clarity, add the   
> detail.  A column joint gets very cluttered very quickly especially   
> with the intersection that you are describing.  I would avoid making  
>  Z bars if at all possible.  If you can not avoid them, lay them out  
>  to scale with the bend radii that the bars will require.  You will   
> see that it is even more cluttered than you think.  If it is   
> cluttered and can be screwed up, it will be screwed up.  Provide the  
>  details and seek as clean of a solution as possible.
>
>
>
> I have 3D AutoCAD models to scale created of cluttered connections   
> so that the engineers can see what they are creating.  A 2D model   
> can not properly show the multiple layers of rebar and the   
> complexity of a connection.
>
>
>
> I would then advise that you physically observe what you have   
> created in the field.  And do not forget the standard tolerance that  
>  is contained in ACI 117.
>
>
>
> Often times, we detail a Swiss watch and ask a guy with a sledge   
> hammer to build it.  Rod busters are good, but they have their   
> limitations.
>
> Regards, Harold Sprague (Reformed rod buster)
>
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:20:02 -0500
>> From: admin(--nospam--at)structuralae.com
>> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
>> Subject: Concrete Reinf Diagram
>>
>> Is it prudent to provide a typical detail that shows a plan view of
>> reinforcing of a 4 beam and column intersection? The situation that I
>> am looking at is where a wide beam frames into the column with a
>> narrower beam on the other side (and 2 other beams frame perp into
>> that). The bars in the wider beam will have to bend into a "Z" in
>> order to be continuous through the column and become developed into
>> the adjacent narrower beam.
>>
>> While it may not be necessary ( and it may depend on the quality of
>> the contractor/detailer on the project ), would it be considered
>> over-kill to provide guidance on this or would it be considered a
>> better quality product?
>>
>> - Jeremy
>>
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