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Re: CJP Weld in a Moment Frame

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This is a bit confusing. We normally look at moment frames having wide flange beams and columns and not connecting a beam to a plate. Also, you may want to check the use of Ordinary Moment Frame in your particular SDC.
 
If you considered the beam to be of A36 material, would the system still work?
 
Farzin S. Rahbar, SE

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Johnson <markajohn(--nospam--at)yahoo.com>
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Sent: Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:32 am
Subject: RE: CJP Weld in a Moment Frame

Richard,

Thanks for the reply.  I think what you gave me is a way to calculate the force 
in each flange if it were welded with fillets.  However, I have to take issue 
with several things:  (1) I'm starting with a CJP (complete joint penetration) 
weld at both flanges, (2) it matters what the beam is made of (A36 or A992 or 
other), i.e. Fy needs to be in your formula, (3) it matters what plate material 
your attaching to (A36 or other) i.e. Fy of the plate needs to be in your 
formula.

My situation is that I have a W8x40 A992 beam welded to a 1.25" thick A36 plate 
with CJP welds at the flanges.  I maintain that doing this will NOT develop the 
beam.  (Yes, I want to 100% develop the beam).  I maintain that I need to add a 
fillet to the CJP (at least 5/16 fillet) in order to develop the moment capacity 
of the beam.

Thanks,
MJ


--- On Fri, 2/26/10, Richard Calvert <RichardC(--nospam--at)lbbe.com> wrote:

> From: Richard Calvert <RichardC(--nospam--at)lbbe.com>
> Subject: RE: CJP Weld in a Moment Frame
> To: "seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org" <seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org>
> Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 7:22 AM
> Mark,
> 
> The AISC only prescribes the weld of the flanges as moment
> resisting (the web's weld does not count)
> 
> The formula for E70xx, in ASD, would be 0.928*b_f*t_f*16
> > Mmax /(d - 2*t_f) 
> 
> Where Mmax, in your case, would be the maximum allowable
> bending of the member, as apposed to the required
> strength.  
> 
> this wont work - in which case add the additional number of
> 16ths of an inch worth of fillet thickness to the value of
> t_f*16 on the left side of the above equation.  (i.e.
> 1/4" fillet is (4) 16ths, so the left side of the formula
> becomes 0.928*b_f*(t_f*16 + 4)
> 
> but on a side note, unless the beam end was designed to
> realize 95-100% of its bending capacity, then you're worries
> may be a bit overly conservative.  And if it is that
> stressed, you may want to look into RBS joints ilo beefy
> welds
> 
> good luck
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Johnson [mailto:markajohn(--nospam--at)yahoo.com]
> 
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:33 PM
> To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
> Subject: CJP Weld in a Moment Frame
> 
> List,
> 
> I have an application where I wanted to weld a 50ksi wide
> flange to the face of a 1.25" thick 36 ksi plate and fully
> develop the 50 ksi wide flange.  (it's part of an
> ordinary moment frame)  I think it would be better to
> use fillets, but since it's not my call, I believe it will
> be done with a CJP.  I want to be able to show my
> client that he should add a fillet to the CJP, or else the
> 50 ksi plate won't be fully developed and that the weak link
> will be the interface between the weld and the 36ksi
> plate.  Also, this would produce a sudden brittle
> failure, not a good thing in earthquake country.
> 
> I would like to find an example calculation or an opinion
> on this.
> 
> TIA
> MJ
> 
> 
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