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Re: An American (Pain In The) Tail

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The problem is that the "industry/manufacturer exception" gets little bit more into the "gray zone" when talking about construction industry stuff.

The "industry/manufacturer exception" originally came about for "pure" widget makers.  The prime example in my area would be engineers that work for an automobile manufacturer.  The PE laws were never meant to apply to things like car or air handler or blender or refrigerator design.  In other words, it was not intended for true "industrial design".

That logic would seem to apply to simple construction produces like a screw or a nail.  It starts to get more complex with things like hold downs or other "complex" connection devices.  But, the line REALLY starts to blur when you start talking about "prefab" structural elements or stuff that is kind of design-built by some supplier/manufacturer.

Take Structural Insulated Panels.  The "design" of the "concept" of how a SIP works (i.e. a composite structural member made of wood and foam) would certainly be within the industrial exception.  But, then you have to keep in mind that many SIP manufacturer are being asked to prepare shop drawings that also tend have a lot of engineering included as the EOR has no experience with SIPs…i.e. they are essentially designing the building rather than a single SIP.  Now, would they fall in to the "industrial exception"?  It is an "industrial/manufactured product" that is being produced and supplied by a "manufacturer".  But, then it is also a product that requires traditional engineering design as part of the completed, assembled strucutre.  So, if an engineer is working for that SIP manufacturer and they want that engineer to do such engineering and seal the shop drawings, does the manufacturer fall in to the "industrial/manufacturer" exception?  I dunno.  They are no longer just making a "pure" widget as more or less intended with exception.

The same applies to steel fabricators if the EOR asked the fabricator to have sealed calcs for connections (as is commonly done East of the Rockies).  If an "in house" engineer does that for the fabricator, does the "manufacturer" exception apply?  Or are they now "providing engineering services" and need a COA?

Those are just two examples, but the "construction world" is chalk full of them.

Then multiple that question by 50 states as each state has their own PE laws and thus could treat it differently than the state next door.

Scott

On Sep 12, 2011, at 10:49 PM, Conrad Harrison wrote:

> Not overly familiar with your systems. But if the industry excemptions
> applied for most of the work, and the  boy is the only one with the seal:
> then may have been better to stay and be more diplomaticly obstructive on a
> project by project basis. When the client requests the seal, investigate
> why, along with the specific requirements of that state. Then advising
> employer that not only need a license for that state, but this recent thing
> introduced requiring a certificate of authority: must be recent if they
> don't have, taking the benefit of the doubt and not wishing to accuse them
> of something.
> 
> Also when the seal is applied doesn't a reason need to be indicated along
> side, or is there one and only one reason under the legislation that a seal
> is applied or can be applied?
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> Conrad Harrison
> B.Tech (mfg & mech), MIIE, gradTIEAust
> mailto:sch.tectonic(--nospam--at)bigpond.com
> Adelaide
> South Australia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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